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welcome to skeptical where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics as you all know by now we

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cover a lot of different topics on

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skeptical but it seems like we always

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return to the question of consciousness

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and what's up with that little voice

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inside your head and why does it seem to

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always be conspiring to make you unhappy

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well that's exactly the question that

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today's guest Sean Webb has sought to

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answer as a young smart successful

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rising star Sean had achieved everything

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that should have made him happy so when

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he faced the fact that he wasn't he

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decided to find out why this eventually

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led to Zen meditation a deep dive into

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neuroscience and a spiritual

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breakthrough that rapidly transformed

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him from a gun collecting money driven

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materialist to a consciousness expert

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and a spiritual seeker who believes he

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may have cracked the code to happiness

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sounds good right hold on a minute

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because while preparing for this

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interview and in true skeptical inquiry

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to perpetuate doubt fashion

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I also found some points of disagreement

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between Sean and I with regard to

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consciousness so what you're about to

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hear is an interview with a guy who's

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done some truly amazing research and

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personal transformation work with regard

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to consciousness and spirituality but

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what you might also hear is a good

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old-fashioned kind of friendly debate

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among seekers on the path this is gonna

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be fun

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you rarely find people that are this

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intelligent and at the same time open

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willing to hash things out

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Shawn it's really exciting to have you

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here on skeptic oh and thanks so much

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for joining me thanks for having me Alex

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it's a real pleasure I've heard your

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voice a number of times and from past

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episodes that I've heard that are all

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been interesting and I just like Wow

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Alex reached out I got to go fantastic

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well you're the author of the red book

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in the blue book as you like to call it

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mind hacking happiness Volume one mind

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hacking happiness volume two increasing

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happiness in finding non-dual

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enlightenment so if the titles and the

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graphics look light and funny waiting to

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get to that subtitle Lightman yeah I

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wish I could have thought of something a

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little more creative for the titles of

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these books but unfortunately these two

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books started out as one book and I just

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kind of had the goal of saying hey let's

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just lay it all out there soup-to-nuts

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from a seeker who starts it you know

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step one of wanting to understand their

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mind well let's talk about all the stuff

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that their mind does that blocks them

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from discovering the deeper truth within

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so that they can understand it mess with

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that process break that process and then

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get around that process to be able to

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you know find their deeper truth within

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and so the red book winds up being the

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first half of this huge book that was

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here's how your mind works and here's

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how to get it out of your way and then

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the second side was okay here's the

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stuff that you may be seeking beyond

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your bond and so that's kind of how that

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whole horrible naming convention came to

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be no I don't think it's horrible at all

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and you're pounding on your key thing

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there and that's awesome and packed with

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neuroscience what they're gonna find is

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study after study where you're citing

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research that backs up what you say in

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this discovery of self self discovery of

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self of that little voice inside your

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head and how maybe that's not all there

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is to you so you know give us the basics

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yeah well you know the the idea behind

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this is to you know create an

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experience of for the reader where they

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can understand and see their mind and

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they can understand the processes that

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come together to create all of their

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negative emotions that create that

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little voice in their head that so is

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doubt and creates havoc within them

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sometimes and then to point out which is

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automatic for their subconscious level

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within their mind but to point out that

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if you can look at something and see

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something then by default you are not

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that thing and so if I can show you how

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your mind works to where you can see it

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within your head it's not like I have to

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convince you of this I say hey look at

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that you look over there and you see it

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then you're like oh yeah I never saw

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that before this is one of those things

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where I say okay here's how your mind

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works watch it the comment and then you

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look at it and you say yeah that's

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exactly how my mind works well if you

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can see that then you realize at a

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subconscious level and then also at a

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conscious level you're not that thing if

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you are looking at something just like a

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tooth can bite itself a fingertip can't

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touch itself an eyeball can't see itself

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without some distance in a mirror

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olfactory nerve in your nose can't smell

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itself if there's a perceiver and a

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perceived then there's some distance

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between the two and so okay then the

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question becomes well okay wow I thought

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I was this mess of my mind before I

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thought I was these emotions that are

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creating havoc in my life but I'm not so

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first of all can I change this process

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if I'm not that and the answer is yes

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and then the second question is all

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right well if I'm not that who and what

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am i as the observer right Who am I in

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this seat of the executor that's being

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handed all this stuff from my mind

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granted enough to convince you that you

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are your mind sometimes but in truth who

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and what am I underneath all of that

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noise that's going on and let's let's

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organize that noise and get it out of

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the way so that we can really move

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forward and do some real deep discovery

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awesome and you know you put it in such

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great simple terms although as we know

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you know it's not at all simple but it

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is a paradigm shift it is the essence of

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spirituality that realization they

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you are the observer at least the kind

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of spirituality that you and I kind of

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seem to be most interested in let's play

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a little game here play along with me I

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like to play this game I call it skeptic

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of Jeopardy and let's jump into kind of

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all those things that we agree with

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which are hugely profound and paradigm

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shaking and then let's hash out these

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couple of things that we don't if you

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will let me pick the first one since you

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just talked about mind hacking and your

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title your books and the title of your

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website mind hacking happiness you know

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I thought this model that you have is

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kind of really fun and interesting and

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I'm showing the graphic up on the screen

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and I thought you might explain what

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people are seeing and four people are

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just listening what they can't see but

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what you're going to explain sure well

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you know it's very easy to understand

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your own mind and how it works once you

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take a look at it and this is one of

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those situations where just like like if

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you've gone through a marketing class

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you've I'm sure seen this before but one

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of the first things you learn in

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marketing is it's sometimes the things

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that you don't see that get pointed out

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to you that make a huge difference

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there's a an arrow in the FedEx logo

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between the capital e and the lower

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letter X and if you've never seen that

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before you're like holy cow how could I

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have missed that perfect arrow between

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the capital letter E and the lower case

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X but then after you see that little

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arrow in that logo you will never not

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see it again

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right and so that's the type of thing

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that we're talking about we're talking

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about the ability to take a look at your

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mind and see how your mind works and

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gives you a different perspective of how

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your mind works and it allows you to

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take a little bit of a distance between

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you and your minds reactions and so what

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we're talking about here is being able

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to see your emotional output as it's

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being processed and then create a space

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for you where your negative emotional

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reactions like beer

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Woori regret doubt sadness etc are all

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optional for you over time and we're

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talking about using the adult learning

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model where we start with an incompetent

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and unconscious incompetence we're just

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like we don't even know what we don't

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know and then we move through a

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conscious incompetence where okay well

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now at least we know what we don't know

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we know we need to learn we move into a

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conscious competence which is okay I

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kind of get this I kind of understand

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how to work my mind but I got to really

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think about it and then after a while

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because of plasticity it works into an

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unconscious competence where you are you

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know lights out shunting anger out the

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door before it even comes to fruition

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you your greatest sadnesses maybe the

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only ones that ever come through like if

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you lose lose a very close loved one

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that type of thing but you know when

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your when your favorite show on Netflix

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gets canceled it no longer ruins your

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day that type of thing and all these

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things you'll realize over time become

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blockers of your happiness because our

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natural state is kind of one where we're

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in a pretty good well being you know if

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everything is cool and this is a

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function of homeostasis if everything's

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cool everything's cool is basically how

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that rule works within your body it

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rules every cell within your existence

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in that if everything is status quo

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everything is as expected then there's

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nothing we really need to do and just

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kind of chill out and do our regular

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normal everyday operations but if

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something is not good then we need to

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take action and that's true for an

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individual cell all the way up through

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all of the trillions of cells in our

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body that that come to create our human

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existence and so when you figure that

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out and you start to work it then you

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can basically first of all be separated

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by your body's reactions to things your

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emotional reactions to things because

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you know emotions are a function of your

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nervous system right so at the point

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that you're separated from that a little

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bit you get a little bit of freedom you

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get a little bit of space to be able to

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say okay these things are simply what my

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mind is giving me they're simply what my

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body is giving me but I don't

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necessarily have to buy into them and

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then at that point you gain a great

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amount of liberation to say you know

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what I'm gonna bypass that hole

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frustration thing with whatever Trump

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said today or whatever it is that it is

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on your social media feed that is

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throwing you into a tizzy or the fact

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that someone said something at work or

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the fact that you know maybe a project

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that you're working on is gone in the

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wrong direction for a little while or

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whatever it is and all of a sudden

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00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:25,830
you're back on track on focus and what

275
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you need to do because there's also a

276
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physiological limitation of you know

277
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when you're having a negative emotional

278
00:11:34,639 --> 00:11:32,700
reaction or you're in turmoil your

279
00:11:35,810 --> 00:11:34,649
prefrontal cortex actually shuts down I

280
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:35,820
don't know if a lot of people know that

281
00:11:39,980 --> 00:11:37,680
or not but one of the first things that

282
00:11:42,380 --> 00:11:39,990
we do because our brain is that organ of

283
00:11:44,389 --> 00:11:42,390
survival is it starts to shunt power

284
00:11:47,510 --> 00:11:44,399
away from non-critical systems and it

285
00:11:49,550 --> 00:11:47,520
you know as of 150 years ago when we had

286
00:11:51,530 --> 00:11:49,560
a fear response let's say of a bear or a

287
00:11:53,690 --> 00:11:51,540
snake or something that could threaten

288
00:11:55,370 --> 00:11:53,700
our lives we didn't need to think our

289
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:55,380
way out of this situation right we just

290
00:11:58,610 --> 00:11:57,360
needed to get energy to our legs we

291
00:12:00,199 --> 00:11:58,620
could run a little faster jump a little

292
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farther across the crevasse or whatever

293
00:12:04,340 --> 00:12:02,220
it is to try to get distance between us

294
00:12:07,130 --> 00:12:04,350
and the threat well in today's world

295
00:12:08,449 --> 00:12:07,140
where we have you know cubicles and we

296
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have problems we have to think through

297
00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:10,050
and things like that that kind of

298
00:12:13,340 --> 00:12:12,240
situation is horrible for us because

299
00:12:15,650 --> 00:12:13,350
when our thinking brain is shut down

300
00:12:18,620 --> 00:12:15,660
we're stuck in the muck even longer than

301
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:18,630
we normally would be and so being able

302
00:12:22,220 --> 00:12:20,850
to shunt that process or being able to

303
00:12:23,930 --> 00:12:22,230
take control that process and shut it

304
00:12:27,319 --> 00:12:23,940
down a little quicker allows you to

305
00:12:28,610 --> 00:12:27,329
think and get your get your mind on do

306
00:12:31,699 --> 00:12:28,620
something else that is more productive

307
00:12:33,199 --> 00:12:31,709
and more profitable for you you know one

308
00:12:35,329 --> 00:12:33,209
thing you said there that I think is

309
00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:35,339
really interesting in people who have

310
00:12:43,069 --> 00:12:40,110
gone down this non-dual path which we

311
00:12:46,940 --> 00:12:43,079
might get into and describe but in

312
00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:46,950
spirituality in general might pick up on

313
00:12:51,199 --> 00:12:49,110
a really important thing you said and it

314
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:51,209
bridges the gap I think between this

315
00:12:56,810 --> 00:12:53,970
idea of happiness which many people just

316
00:12:59,780 --> 00:12:56,820
accept is oh you know things are good

317
00:13:01,400 --> 00:12:59,790
things I'm getting what I want and what

318
00:13:03,319 --> 00:13:01,410
you're saying I think is really

319
00:13:05,300 --> 00:13:03,329
important and in some something

320
00:13:07,940 --> 00:13:05,310
different that people who have been down

321
00:13:09,470 --> 00:13:07,950
the spiritual path realizing you're

322
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:09,480
talking about just creating some space

323
00:13:15,220 --> 00:13:12,480
man just being able to get a little bit

324
00:13:18,269 --> 00:13:15,230
more distance in freedom from that

325
00:13:20,429 --> 00:13:18,279
oppressive yeah a little

326
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:20,439
voice in our head that is driving us

327
00:13:25,499 --> 00:13:23,490
nuts let's let's start with the space

328
00:13:28,350 --> 00:13:25,509
which you know a lot of people will not

329
00:13:29,759 --> 00:13:28,360
be able to identify with a lot of people

330
00:13:31,889 --> 00:13:29,769
don't realize that you know you can

331
00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:31,899
actually get some space from your human

332
00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:34,689
mind and the reactions of your human

333
00:13:37,530 --> 00:13:36,399
mind you know we we often try to think

334
00:13:38,970 --> 00:13:37,540
about you know let's get some space

335
00:13:40,410 --> 00:13:38,980
let's go on vacation let's get away from

336
00:13:41,549 --> 00:13:40,420
this place let's go to the mountains

337
00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:41,559
let's go to the beach let's go to the

338
00:13:44,879 --> 00:13:43,689
whatever to create some physical space

339
00:13:46,230 --> 00:13:44,889
between you where you don't have to

340
00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:46,240
actually think about things that are

341
00:13:50,369 --> 00:13:47,680
troubling you or that are challenging

342
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:50,379
you et cetera but without having to move

343
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:51,970
a muscle without having to go even one

344
00:13:55,439 --> 00:13:53,410
inch you can create some space between

345
00:13:59,040 --> 00:13:55,449
the reactions of your mind and your

346
00:14:00,749 --> 00:13:59,050
observational self by understanding the

347
00:14:03,059 --> 00:14:00,759
process of your mind being able to see

348
00:14:05,189 --> 00:14:03,069
that process on a moment-to-moment basis

349
00:14:07,019 --> 00:14:05,199
and then that creates some space between

350
00:14:08,460 --> 00:14:07,029
you and the mind to say hey if I can

351
00:14:10,769 --> 00:14:08,470
look at this I'm not that thing again

352
00:14:14,610 --> 00:14:10,779
and this can be dramatic I mean there

353
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:14,620
was a lady who was really literally the

354
00:14:19,860 --> 00:14:17,610
poster child for addiction alcohol

355
00:14:21,809 --> 00:14:19,870
addiction specifically in the United

356
00:14:25,439 --> 00:14:21,819
States where she had drank herself to

357
00:14:28,079 --> 00:14:25,449
one drink within the grasp of death she

358
00:14:29,429 --> 00:14:28,089
wound up in a two-week coma in a

359
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:29,439
traumatic brain injury ward of a

360
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:32,399
neuroscience Hospital in Houston and

361
00:14:38,730 --> 00:14:36,250
woke up weeks later in stone-cold sober

362
00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:38,740
had to relearn how to tie her shoes had

363
00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:41,529
to relearn to walk without stumbling you

364
00:14:45,210 --> 00:14:43,600
know without a drink in her system at

365
00:14:49,740 --> 00:14:45,220
all because she had done that much brain

366
00:14:52,259 --> 00:14:49,750
damage by alcohol consumption well she

367
00:14:54,509 --> 00:14:52,269
got out of the hospital drove home her

368
00:14:55,290 --> 00:14:54,519
husband was unpacking the bags in the

369
00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:55,300
driveway

370
00:14:59,490 --> 00:14:57,730
and she was inside pouring herself a

371
00:15:02,340 --> 00:14:59,500
glass of wine to take the edge off so

372
00:15:03,509 --> 00:15:02,350
she came to me with this story after she

373
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:03,519
had read the book she goes I know

374
00:15:08,549 --> 00:15:05,920
addiction you know I know how much it

375
00:15:10,199 --> 00:15:08,559
grips you I know how much your mind is

376
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:10,209
an uncontrollable thing

377
00:15:15,619 --> 00:15:12,970
well she read this red book that was

378
00:15:18,660 --> 00:15:15,629
mine I can have it is Volume one and

379
00:15:21,569 --> 00:15:18,670
took control of her mind and then was

380
00:15:24,419 --> 00:15:21,579
able to cure her addiction by herself

381
00:15:24,689 --> 00:15:24,429
without the AAA meanings and things like

382
00:15:26,970 --> 00:15:24,699
that

383
00:15:28,860 --> 00:15:26,980
and the way she did it was she started

384
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:28,870
to go within she started to look at her

385
00:15:31,270 --> 00:15:30,490
mind's reactions she started to look at

386
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:31,280
that little mad

387
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:33,050
boys that said hey let's go have a drink

388
00:15:37,630 --> 00:15:34,490
hey let's not deal with this stress

389
00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:37,640
right now and let's let this boil up

390
00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:39,110
until it's Friday and I really need to

391
00:15:43,630 --> 00:15:40,880
go to the bar and have a you know go on

392
00:15:45,190 --> 00:15:43,640
a bender she was able to handle at least

393
00:15:47,230 --> 00:15:45,200
the way she explained it she was able to

394
00:15:49,810 --> 00:15:47,240
handle her Mon to moment stresses at

395
00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:49,820
Tuesday afternoon at 4 o'clock at

396
00:15:53,530 --> 00:15:51,710
Tuesday afternoon at 4 o'clock to where

397
00:15:54,910 --> 00:15:53,540
it didn't boil up until Friday and she

398
00:15:57,370 --> 00:15:54,920
needed to go out and have a drink that

399
00:15:59,620 --> 00:15:57,380
type of thing and so she stopped

400
00:16:01,270 --> 00:15:59,630
drinking but then she also later sat

401
00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:01,280
down with a glass of wine in a journal

402
00:16:06,030 --> 00:16:03,920
and she said okay I'm gonna mindfully

403
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:06,040
take this drink and I'm going to record

404
00:16:10,180 --> 00:16:08,690
the psychological effect I'm gonna

405
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:10,190
record the physical effect I'm gonna

406
00:16:14,350 --> 00:16:11,450
record my thoughts during the whole

407
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:14,360
thing and took that drink that ááá said

408
00:16:19,210 --> 00:16:17,120
she can never take again and decided I'm

409
00:16:20,980 --> 00:16:19,220
done I'm done with this whole alcohol

410
00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:20,990
thing I really don't really enjoy the

411
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:22,880
the whole laundry list of things that I

412
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:24,610
just listed out on this piece of paper

413
00:16:27,970 --> 00:16:26,810
this really isn't gonna be something

414
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:27,980
that's part of my life anymore and so

415
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:29,600
that's you know that's her it's a

416
00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:30,890
hundred percent her it's not like you

417
00:16:35,020 --> 00:16:33,230
know my book cures addiction she took

418
00:16:37,510 --> 00:16:35,030
the ability to take her mind under

419
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:37,520
control to do an analysis of what her

420
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:39,650
mind was doing and then she did

421
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:41,810
something amazing with that but that's

422
00:16:46,090 --> 00:16:43,850
how powerful this can be in that when

423
00:16:47,860 --> 00:16:46,100
you have those things that are you know

424
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:47,870
creating havoc for you in your life

425
00:16:50,890 --> 00:16:49,040
where you're having just one bad

426
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:50,900
relationship after another or one bad

427
00:16:54,579 --> 00:16:52,880
job choice after another or one bad

428
00:16:57,310 --> 00:16:54,589
addiction choice after another or

429
00:16:59,829 --> 00:16:57,320
whatever it is there's something inside

430
00:17:02,829 --> 00:16:59,839
your mind at a subconscious level that

431
00:17:04,420 --> 00:17:02,839
is causing that to occur right and you

432
00:17:07,090 --> 00:17:04,430
can't stop it from coming up and that's

433
00:17:09,189 --> 00:17:07,100
the problem and so if you can take

434
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:09,199
charge of that process and understand

435
00:17:12,970 --> 00:17:11,329
how your process your consciousness

436
00:17:14,260 --> 00:17:12,980
works down to the multiple levels of

437
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:14,270
consciousness below your waking

438
00:17:18,730 --> 00:17:16,610
awareness you can start taking charge of

439
00:17:20,949 --> 00:17:18,740
those or you can start altering the

440
00:17:23,679 --> 00:17:20,959
variables that create your entire

441
00:17:25,150 --> 00:17:23,689
emotional landscape period you can take

442
00:17:27,429 --> 00:17:25,160
charge of the output of your mind and

443
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:27,439
change your life dramatically and you

444
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:28,610
know I'm working with a couple of Navy

445
00:17:33,010 --> 00:17:31,850
SEALs that has said you know this is the

446
00:17:34,420 --> 00:17:33,020
best mind training book on the planet

447
00:17:36,610 --> 00:17:34,430
we've already been through the best mind

448
00:17:38,020 --> 00:17:36,620
training that we've that you know the

449
00:17:41,530 --> 00:17:38,030
United States government has available

450
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:41,540
for us up in Virginia and you know I

451
00:17:44,980 --> 00:17:43,250
wish I would have found this book to

452
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:44,990
address my PTSD much soon

453
00:17:49,299 --> 00:17:47,450
than I had because these guys are

454
00:17:52,210 --> 00:17:49,309
getting in there and saying okay no more

455
00:17:53,169 --> 00:17:52,220
PTSD and then it's gone and you know

456
00:17:55,389 --> 00:17:53,179
they don't have an issue with it anymore

457
00:17:57,789 --> 00:17:55,399
creating that space between what your

458
00:17:59,620 --> 00:17:57,799
mind wants to give you and who you are

459
00:18:02,110 --> 00:17:59,630
and realizing who you are that is

460
00:18:04,269 --> 00:18:02,120
different from your mind game changer

461
00:18:06,639 --> 00:18:04,279
game changer so when we're talking about

462
00:18:08,860 --> 00:18:06,649
that space it's incredibly important for

463
00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:08,870
you to have that yeah

464
00:18:14,289 --> 00:18:11,710
those are some great great stories and

465
00:18:16,450 --> 00:18:14,299
hats off to you and so great that you're

466
00:18:19,180 --> 00:18:16,460
able to produce something that was there

467
00:18:21,460 --> 00:18:19,190
for people when they needed it in that

468
00:18:24,519 --> 00:18:21,470
way and this is yoga man this is

469
00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:24,529
standard yoga stop you just go read it

470
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:26,000
it you know what's kind of interesting

471
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:29,090
to me just to follow on to that point we

472
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:31,039
may be hammered it enough but I don't

473
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:32,690
think we can hammer it enough because

474
00:18:37,870 --> 00:18:35,690
you know we look at our culture and what

475
00:18:42,130 --> 00:18:37,880
is the what is the most severe

476
00:18:45,570 --> 00:18:42,140
punishment we can give someone when

477
00:18:50,350 --> 00:18:45,580
they're in prison solitary confinement

478
00:18:52,870 --> 00:18:50,360
and you got to be there by yourself with

479
00:18:56,049 --> 00:18:52,880
that voice inside your head oh my gosh

480
00:18:58,840 --> 00:18:56,059
let us know but just take a step back

481
00:19:01,539 --> 00:18:58,850
and say let's go looking and yet those

482
00:19:04,330 --> 00:19:01,549
guys are sitting in a cave for seven

483
00:19:07,180 --> 00:19:04,340
years with no contact there go this is

484
00:19:09,730 --> 00:19:07,190
complete bliss because they have that

485
00:19:11,710 --> 00:19:09,740
complete separation they're tapping into

486
00:19:14,049 --> 00:19:11,720
something else that when you talk about

487
00:19:17,529 --> 00:19:14,059
the larger consciousness but the whole

488
00:19:21,519 --> 00:19:17,539
paradigm is is quite sick that we have

489
00:19:24,730 --> 00:19:21,529
in our culture where we've accepted that

490
00:19:26,620 --> 00:19:24,740
that little yammering voice in your head

491
00:19:28,810 --> 00:19:26,630
oh my gosh you do not want to be alone

492
00:19:30,789 --> 00:19:28,820
with that so like you say you want to go

493
00:19:32,980 --> 00:19:30,799
down to the bar or you just want to go

494
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:32,990
yack with your friends or you want to

495
00:19:38,039 --> 00:19:34,970
spend all your time on social media but

496
00:19:41,529 --> 00:19:38,049
the last thing you want to do is be

497
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:41,539
confronted by the voice inside your head

498
00:19:47,409 --> 00:19:45,250
it's really kind of a strange situation

499
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:47,419
yeah and so you can learn to turn that

500
00:19:54,370 --> 00:19:50,720
thing off or at least change its tune it

501
00:19:55,810 --> 00:19:54,380
can be like if you had eternity you know

502
00:19:57,039 --> 00:19:55,820
I tell this to a lot of people I was

503
00:19:58,280 --> 00:19:57,049
like look if you were if you had

504
00:20:00,950 --> 00:19:58,290
eternity you

505
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:00,960
eventually break up with yourself like

506
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:02,250
if you had to spend eternity with any

507
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:03,600
one person you'd certainly break up with

508
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:05,130
them along before eternity got there but

509
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:07,170
I mean if you had eternity to spend with

510
00:20:11,030 --> 00:20:09,090
anyone even yourself you break up with

511
00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:11,040
yourself at some point to say [\h__\h]

512
00:20:17,060 --> 00:20:15,120
suicide right I'm done with this whole

513
00:20:19,130 --> 00:20:17,070
process but if you can understand that

514
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:19,140
process like you know there's this self

515
00:20:22,850 --> 00:20:20,640
within as the spiritual self or this

516
00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:22,860
capital s level self that a lot of

517
00:20:26,510 --> 00:20:24,480
people you know once we start to put

518
00:20:28,370 --> 00:20:26,520
words to this stuff we start walking

519
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:28,380
straight off the path of truth we all

520
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:30,570
know that so let's just put that right

521
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:31,890
out there but you know you have this

522
00:20:37,910 --> 00:20:35,730
capital level self that is your core

523
00:20:40,250 --> 00:20:37,920
being that is your existence beyond your

524
00:20:41,780 --> 00:20:40,260
mind etc but then you have to understand

525
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:41,790
your mind self you have to be able to

526
00:20:45,140 --> 00:20:43,410
identify that because it likes to trick

527
00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:45,150
you into thinking that you're that self

528
00:20:49,850 --> 00:20:47,310
and your mind self is this laundry list

529
00:20:52,550 --> 00:20:49,860
of stuff and again your brain is your

530
00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:52,560
organ of survival so the limbic system

531
00:20:57,170 --> 00:20:55,710
within your brain constantly scans all

532
00:20:58,670 --> 00:20:57,180
of your environment for threats and says

533
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:58,680
okay is this a threat is this idea of

534
00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:00,240
threat is this person a threat is this

535
00:21:03,650 --> 00:21:02,130
headline a threat is this you know

536
00:21:05,210 --> 00:21:03,660
baseball flying in my head a threat

537
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:05,220
where is your gonna miss me that type of

538
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:06,960
thing then a second question must be

539
00:21:11,870 --> 00:21:10,080
asked a threat to what and then that's

540
00:21:15,020 --> 00:21:11,880
when your mind has to say from a

541
00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:15,030
physiological survival perspective oh I

542
00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:16,710
gotta have a laundry list of stuff in my

543
00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:19,110
mind that says this is myself and this

544
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:21,480
is not myself like if I see a leaf

545
00:21:24,260 --> 00:21:22,890
cutter and I have to understand whether

546
00:21:25,580 --> 00:21:24,270
or not I have ly used to find out

547
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:25,590
whether or not that leaf cutter ant has

548
00:21:29,390 --> 00:21:27,930
a threat to me and if it's not a threat

549
00:21:31,610 --> 00:21:29,400
to me then I don't have to expend energy

550
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:31,620
in my closed system and if it is a

551
00:21:34,970 --> 00:21:33,090
threat that I need to move away or do

552
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:34,980
whatever is necessary to defend itself

553
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:37,530
and so that whole minds self thing which

554
00:21:42,140 --> 00:21:39,330
includes your body you know your body

555
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:42,150
gets hardwired into that definition it

556
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:44,490
starts to pile on like Jim Coan and

557
00:21:50,030 --> 00:21:47,760
Virginia the UVA proved that people

558
00:21:52,580 --> 00:21:50,040
around us become a portion of our sense

559
00:21:54,980 --> 00:21:52,590
of self so that one simple system of

560
00:21:56,690 --> 00:21:54,990
defensive self within us can then also

561
00:21:59,030 --> 00:21:56,700
expand to things around us like our

562
00:22:01,280 --> 00:21:59,040
tribe or like our possessions or like

563
00:22:04,460 --> 00:22:01,290
our job or like our ideas of right and

564
00:22:07,220 --> 00:22:04,470
wrong are you know pro-choice pro-life

565
00:22:10,970 --> 00:22:07,230
position or politics or whatever it is

566
00:22:12,770 --> 00:22:10,980
like sam harris proved that politics get

567
00:22:14,930 --> 00:22:12,780
written on to our sense of self and our

568
00:22:17,090 --> 00:22:14,940
nervous system acts the same exact way

569
00:22:20,180 --> 00:22:17,100
when someone attacks our politics on a

570
00:22:22,610 --> 00:22:20,190
news feed on our Facebook page exactly

571
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:22,620
like a bear walking out of the woods in

572
00:22:26,900 --> 00:22:25,110
front of us right there is a same

573
00:22:28,730 --> 00:22:26,910
physiological reaction so Tiffany

574
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:28,740
Burnett white proved that brand

575
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:32,250
connection other ideas of identity can

576
00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:34,080
get written onto this self and once you

577
00:22:41,060 --> 00:22:36,809
start to see all of your minds reactions

578
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:41,070
as a kind of a reaction a self defense

579
00:22:45,860 --> 00:22:43,730
reaction to something on your self list

580
00:22:47,090 --> 00:22:45,870
one you can start to take the proactive

581
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:47,100
step of starting to remove things from

582
00:22:51,770 --> 00:22:50,250
your self map to say okay well this is

583
00:22:52,909 --> 00:22:51,780
no longer gonna bother me anymore I'm

584
00:22:54,740 --> 00:22:52,919
not going to put any energy into

585
00:22:56,930 --> 00:22:54,750
defending this thing and then you can

586
00:22:58,820 --> 00:22:56,940
also again create that a little bit of a

587
00:23:00,020 --> 00:22:58,830
space in your mind to say oh the reason

588
00:23:01,669 --> 00:23:00,030
I'm having that reaction is because I

589
00:23:05,090 --> 00:23:01,679
have an attachment for mental attachment

590
00:23:06,380 --> 00:23:05,100
to X and all of a sudden now there are

591
00:23:08,539 --> 00:23:06,390
two magic things that happens one

592
00:23:10,970 --> 00:23:08,549
there's a space that gets created within

593
00:23:13,220 --> 00:23:10,980
you for your observation and the

594
00:23:16,490 --> 00:23:13,230
reaction but then also there's a

595
00:23:18,919 --> 00:23:16,500
hardwiring really cool thing that Matt

596
00:23:20,930 --> 00:23:18,929
Lieberman found at UCLA in 2007 and they

597
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:20,940
did its own copycat studies to prove

598
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:23,490
this out when you put a cognitive

599
00:23:28,340 --> 00:23:25,679
understanding to your emotional process

600
00:23:29,630 --> 00:23:28,350
it shuts off your emotional process so

601
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:29,640
your limbic system sends a message

602
00:23:34,430 --> 00:23:32,400
toward to the brain and and it says okay

603
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:34,440
this might be a coil on the ground might

604
00:23:38,990 --> 00:23:37,679
be a hose it might be a snake and at the

605
00:23:41,570 --> 00:23:39,000
point you look down and your mind

606
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:41,580
understands oh well that's a hose all of

607
00:23:45,020 --> 00:23:43,200
a sudden the message gets sent back to

608
00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:45,030
your limbic system to say okay we got

609
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:47,760
the message we understand not a threat

610
00:23:53,299 --> 00:23:50,610
and the emotion stops being sent to the

611
00:23:56,299 --> 00:23:53,309
forebrain for analysis well when you can

612
00:23:59,060 --> 00:23:56,309
put an understanding of the process of

613
00:24:00,110 --> 00:23:59,070
how your mind has created an emotional

614
00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:00,120
reaction in the first place by

615
00:24:03,169 --> 00:24:01,710
understanding you know this equation of

616
00:24:05,150 --> 00:24:03,179
emotion thing that I outlined in the red

617
00:24:06,830 --> 00:24:05,160
book and all this other stuff you get to

618
00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:06,840
play with the variables on that things

619
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:08,760
like that when you understand that

620
00:24:13,039 --> 00:24:10,650
there's a magic button in your brain

621
00:24:15,740 --> 00:24:13,049
that shuts off the emotion being sent

622
00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:15,750
forward now this is cool because this is

623
00:24:20,060 --> 00:24:18,510
a resolution of the emotional pain that

624
00:24:22,010 --> 00:24:20,070
you're experiencing all these things get

625
00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:22,020
in our way of discovering deeper

626
00:24:24,790 --> 00:24:23,640
spirituality and things like that we

627
00:24:27,070 --> 00:24:24,800
talked about

628
00:24:28,930 --> 00:24:27,080
but on a day-to-day basis you can shut

629
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:28,940
off your pain and suffering by simply

630
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:31,520
understanding it and then the message

631
00:24:33,820 --> 00:24:32,450
from your right ventral lateral

632
00:24:35,170 --> 00:24:33,830
prefrontal cortex and your medial

633
00:24:36,820 --> 00:24:35,180
prefrontal cortex sends a message back

634
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:36,830
says okay shut it off we get it we

635
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:38,720
understand it no more message needs to

636
00:24:42,340 --> 00:24:40,490
be sent and that's exactly how the

637
00:24:44,410 --> 00:24:42,350
entire nervous system works in Mass cuz

638
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:44,420
it doesn't want waste energy sending a

639
00:24:47,290 --> 00:24:45,770
message over and over and over again

640
00:24:49,420 --> 00:24:47,300
it's been resolved weeks ago or months

641
00:24:51,370 --> 00:24:49,430
ago or whatever it is as soon as it gets

642
00:24:53,260 --> 00:24:51,380
the message back it shuts off well if

643
00:24:55,060 --> 00:24:53,270
you're in that space of understanding

644
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:55,070
your emotional reactions to things even

645
00:24:58,960 --> 00:24:56,570
your micro reactions to things on a

646
00:25:01,330 --> 00:24:58,970
daily basis those things get shut off

647
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:01,340
your mind is much quieter that creates a

648
00:25:06,490 --> 00:25:03,370
plasticity that you can start to

649
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:06,500
understand and feel your deeper

650
00:25:18,460 --> 00:25:13,610
existence within great except you've now

651
00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:18,470
kind of meandered into these minor

652
00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:20,720
points of difference that you know could

653
00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:22,910
be pretty major points a difference you

654
00:25:28,270 --> 00:25:26,510
know and so we have to kind of dive into

655
00:25:30,850 --> 00:25:28,280
a bunch of topics and we're going to

656
00:25:35,530 --> 00:25:30,860
have some fun III hope people understand

657
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:35,540
that I pranaam to you you are a true

658
00:25:42,670 --> 00:25:39,530
seeker on the path and awesome awesome

659
00:25:45,730 --> 00:25:42,680
stuff so you know we're gonna hash out

660
00:25:48,730 --> 00:25:45,740
stuff that's kind of interesting to me

661
00:25:51,670 --> 00:25:48,740
in my little world and for people who

662
00:25:53,530 --> 00:25:51,680
are really down this path these things

663
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:53,540
do have a difference you know well to

664
00:26:00,010 --> 00:25:56,930
what extent is your brain what we're

665
00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:00,020
really trying to operate on here or to

666
00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:01,820
what extent is this consciousness

667
00:26:08,020 --> 00:26:04,640
something more fundamental that we don't

668
00:26:10,090 --> 00:26:08,030
understand what is the endgame in terms

669
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:10,100
of control do we want to control how

670
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:12,320
much are we in want to be in the control

671
00:26:17,950 --> 00:26:15,650
game so I've laid out a board that kind

672
00:26:22,150 --> 00:26:17,960
of touches on a lot of these topics and

673
00:26:24,820 --> 00:26:22,160
in the true spirit of jeopardy I'm gonna

674
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:24,830
let you pick and we'll just kind of see

675
00:26:32,650 --> 00:26:28,720
where some of this stuff goes Wow okay

676
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:32,660
let's go let's find out what's behind

677
00:26:39,310 --> 00:26:36,970
neuroscience fair enough

678
00:26:45,370 --> 00:26:39,320
what's behind neuroscience Oh a

679
00:26:47,169 --> 00:26:45,380
shameless plug for Alex's book why

680
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:47,179
science is wrong about almost everything

681
00:26:55,090 --> 00:26:51,890
and I'm kidding but I'm not because when

682
00:26:58,720 --> 00:26:55,100
I wrote that book the premise was if you

683
00:27:01,360 --> 00:26:58,730
get consciousness wrong then you can't

684
00:27:04,530 --> 00:27:01,370
get anything right and science has

685
00:27:07,210 --> 00:27:04,540
fundamentally misunderstood

686
00:27:11,740 --> 00:27:07,220
consciousness and you have a ton of

687
00:27:15,010 --> 00:27:11,750
great neuro science but it's all built

688
00:27:18,490 --> 00:27:15,020
on this fundamental misunderstanding of

689
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:18,500
what consciousness is and it's it's hung

690
00:27:23,710 --> 00:27:20,770
up in the correlation versus causation

691
00:27:26,799 --> 00:27:23,720
problem they are hung up on the idea

692
00:27:28,810 --> 00:27:26,809
that consciousness is an Epiphone Amin

693
00:27:32,289 --> 00:27:28,820
of the brain - was brain you can be

694
00:27:35,289 --> 00:27:32,299
nothing more right and that is always

695
00:27:37,630 --> 00:27:35,299
going to be a limiting factor you know

696
00:27:39,490 --> 00:27:37,640
sam harris is a nincompoop so he might

697
00:27:41,980 --> 00:27:39,500
have had a good study published about

698
00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:41,990
one or other of his pet things about

699
00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:43,520
religion and neuro sense but he's

700
00:27:50,919 --> 00:27:46,820
fundamentally misunderstands the nature

701
00:27:54,370 --> 00:27:50,929
of consciousness so jump in there yeah I

702
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:54,380
agree and and I think maybe the audience

703
00:27:57,940 --> 00:27:55,730
will be surprised that I agree with a

704
00:28:00,240 --> 00:27:57,950
lot of what he just said you know I do

705
00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:00,250
present a lot of science in the books

706
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:04,510
which really was more of a tool to say

707
00:28:09,460 --> 00:28:08,210
this isn't just a theory that I came up

708
00:28:11,140 --> 00:28:09,470
with out of the blue and you need to

709
00:28:15,250 --> 00:28:11,150
believe this in yada-yada-yada it was

710
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:15,260
here's all the empirical evidence that

711
00:28:21,159 --> 00:28:17,330
suggests that what I'm about to tell you

712
00:28:23,530 --> 00:28:21,169
is correct and so I agree with you that

713
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:23,540
at the fundamental level there is a

714
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:26,090
horrible misunderstanding of what

715
00:28:36,159 --> 00:28:32,510
consciousness is and how critical and

716
00:28:39,010 --> 00:28:36,169
how much of a building block it is for

717
00:28:42,669 --> 00:28:39,020
the whole thing for all of our existence

718
00:28:44,140 --> 00:28:42,679
not just you know this moving meat suit

719
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:44,150
that we have that we seem to have

720
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:46,250
control over eighty to a hundred years

721
00:28:51,220 --> 00:28:49,610
if everything goes well but you know

722
00:28:52,299 --> 00:28:51,230
the consciousness of absolutely

723
00:28:54,370 --> 00:28:52,309
everything and I talked about this a

724
00:28:55,510 --> 00:28:54,380
little bit in the blue book in that you

725
00:28:58,450 --> 00:28:55,520
know I believe consciousness is

726
00:29:01,480 --> 00:28:58,460
fundamental the evidence that we have of

727
00:29:04,060 --> 00:29:01,490
that is you know the the dive into

728
00:29:06,039 --> 00:29:04,070
quantum mechanics and again you know any

729
00:29:07,210 --> 00:29:06,049
time a lot of folks say the word quantum

730
00:29:08,169 --> 00:29:07,220
mechanics they don't understand what the

731
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:08,179
heck's going on with that you should

732
00:29:11,950 --> 00:29:09,650
probably run for the hills as quick as

733
00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:11,960
possible but the reality the simple

734
00:29:15,940 --> 00:29:14,000
reality of the situation of the science

735
00:29:18,850 --> 00:29:15,950
is that there is a component of quantum

736
00:29:21,580 --> 00:29:18,860
mechanics called consciousness that we

737
00:29:23,820 --> 00:29:21,590
don't yet understand and yet that is

738
00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:23,830
fundamental they're like 17 major

739
00:29:29,409 --> 00:29:25,760
interpretations of quantum mechanics not

740
00:29:30,909 --> 00:29:29,419
one of them leaves out consciousness as

741
00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:30,919
a fundamental component without

742
00:29:34,539 --> 00:29:32,240
consciousness the whole model doesn't

743
00:29:37,659 --> 00:29:34,549
work right you do a nice job of breaking

744
00:29:39,909 --> 00:29:37,669
down that history and we talked about it

745
00:29:42,190 --> 00:29:39,919
on this show but you've added some good

746
00:29:44,049 --> 00:29:42,200
points to it it's it's almost like you

747
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:44,059
can follow the path of these great

748
00:29:48,460 --> 00:29:46,250
physicists they're going down this path

749
00:29:51,070 --> 00:29:48,470
from them they just hit a point they go

750
00:29:53,250 --> 00:29:51,080
oh my gosh I can't really get any

751
00:29:55,299 --> 00:29:53,260
further without acknowledging

752
00:29:57,490 --> 00:29:55,309
consciousness and then independently

753
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:57,500
they're all kind of coming to the same

754
00:30:02,289 --> 00:30:00,559
thing and it's funny that we just want

755
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:02,299
to kind of sidestep that go no that

756
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:04,370
didn't really happen we can pretend

757
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:07,010
right the Copenhagen interpretation is

758
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:10,130
hey shut up and compute right you know

759
00:30:14,020 --> 00:30:12,080
and it doesn't even really leave

760
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:14,030
consciousness by the wayside it just

761
00:30:17,169 --> 00:30:15,770
says yeah but we really don't need it

762
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:17,179
for the map and we really don't need it

763
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:19,010
for the things that create you know

764
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:22,850
almost two-thirds of our economy now is

765
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:24,890
based on you know the quantum mechanic

766
00:30:30,490 --> 00:30:26,570
calculations is that it's the single

767
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:30,500
most accurate predicting engine on the

768
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:31,850
planet it's never made a prediction

769
00:30:35,919 --> 00:30:34,130
that's incorrect etc and that's their

770
00:30:37,659 --> 00:30:35,929
that's their place and and they're fine

771
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:37,669
with it and I'm fine with it to go make

772
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:40,730
it awesome chanology interject something

773
00:30:45,940 --> 00:30:42,770
there because you're a super computer

774
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:45,950
guy super technical engineering guy and

775
00:30:51,850 --> 00:30:49,010
I say that all the time but I want to

776
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:51,860
just have you reinforce that when you

777
00:30:57,700 --> 00:30:53,690
say hey two-thirds of our economy is

778
00:31:00,669 --> 00:30:57,710
based on quantum mechanics people don't

779
00:31:03,770 --> 00:31:00,679
get that how how is that so so maybe

780
00:31:07,250 --> 00:31:03,780
let's talk about if you're designing a

781
00:31:08,570 --> 00:31:07,260
chip you know why you care about quantum

782
00:31:12,410 --> 00:31:08,580
mechanics maybe let's take a little

783
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:12,420
sidestep there well sure I mean quantum

784
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:14,850
mechanics in general is just the science

785
00:31:20,810 --> 00:31:18,450
of how the smallest bits of Newtonian

786
00:31:23,540 --> 00:31:20,820
physics works underneath though it's

787
00:31:26,090 --> 00:31:23,550
it's like the underlying rule set of all

788
00:31:28,010 --> 00:31:26,100
of the tiniest bits of Newtonian physics

789
00:31:29,630 --> 00:31:28,020
and we live in a Newtonian physics world

790
00:31:32,540 --> 00:31:29,640
we live in a very physical world of

791
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:32,550
atoms and electrons and you know waves

792
00:31:36,830 --> 00:31:35,130
and things moving and etc and so this

793
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:36,840
quantum mechanics is simply a way of

794
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:38,730
understanding and being able to predict

795
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:40,410
how those things are going to react in

796
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:45,210
different situations inclusive of you

797
00:31:50,210 --> 00:31:47,850
know randomness and uncertainty and

798
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:50,220
things like that that occur that you

799
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:51,600
have to take into consideration I mean

800
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:54,290
even when you have the like I used to be

801
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:56,490
engineer for a super computing company

802
00:32:02,690 --> 00:32:00,480
and so on these chips you have a certain

803
00:32:04,940 --> 00:32:02,700
level of expectation that they're going

804
00:32:06,530 --> 00:32:04,950
to do things correct most of the time

805
00:32:07,910 --> 00:32:06,540
but then there's also going to be

806
00:32:10,130 --> 00:32:07,920
mistakes it's going to be errors they're

807
00:32:13,310 --> 00:32:10,140
going to be uncertainty that is

808
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:13,320
calculated into that chip that you put

809
00:32:17,210 --> 00:32:14,970
into multiple chips into the computer

810
00:32:20,260 --> 00:32:17,220
system and so you have to be able to put

811
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:20,270
the right amount of double checks or

812
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:25,250
check sums into this process to create a

813
00:32:31,010 --> 00:32:28,290
kind of a more robust system of

814
00:32:33,890 --> 00:32:31,020
computing to say okay based on my

815
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:33,900
quantum mechanics projections and

816
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:36,000
calculations now I understand exactly

817
00:32:40,370 --> 00:32:38,730
how to program for these chips so that I

818
00:32:44,030 --> 00:32:40,380
can understand that these chips haven't

819
00:32:47,230 --> 00:32:44,040
given me an erroneous output so that we

820
00:32:50,270 --> 00:32:47,240
can do the computing job to a very high

821
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:50,280
confidence level that we're jump in

822
00:32:53,930 --> 00:32:51,570
there and correct me if I'm wrong but

823
00:32:55,730 --> 00:32:53,940
even getting more dumb to basics or

824
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:55,740
people can understand it how do I go

825
00:33:00,950 --> 00:32:57,600
from a computer that's as big as a room

826
00:33:02,990 --> 00:33:00,960
to a computer that fits in my hand and I

827
00:33:05,210 --> 00:33:03,000
call it an iPhone well I keep running

828
00:33:07,070 --> 00:33:05,220
those little lines that carry electrons

829
00:33:08,750 --> 00:33:07,080
that are ones and zeros and I keep

830
00:33:10,730 --> 00:33:08,760
moving those little wires closer and

831
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:10,740
closer together but then I find out that

832
00:33:14,450 --> 00:33:12,570
at some point if I get those lines too

833
00:33:16,649 --> 00:33:14,460
close together those little electrical

834
00:33:18,629 --> 00:33:16,659
lines these electrons seem to jump back

835
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:18,639
forth just like those quantum physicists

836
00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:20,529
said they would and everything goes

837
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:22,960
haywire right yes so I realize this is

838
00:33:27,539 --> 00:33:25,210
like one of the problems I have that is

839
00:33:30,060 --> 00:33:27,549
quantum physics it's like I can't design

840
00:33:33,539 --> 00:33:30,070
a chip without knowing that there is

841
00:33:36,389 --> 00:33:33,549
that jumping around of stuff that

842
00:33:38,849 --> 00:33:36,399
entanglement of stuff that is kind of

843
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:38,859
right out of those equations so it does

844
00:33:43,589 --> 00:33:40,450
in a way that a lot of people don't

845
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:43,599
understand the theory rolls right into

846
00:33:47,789 --> 00:33:45,970
the mathematical equations rolls right

847
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:47,799
into the engineering that people are

848
00:33:51,719 --> 00:33:49,450
sitting there on there let on their

849
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:51,729
bench saying okay how can we make this

850
00:33:59,609 --> 00:33:55,570
thing work yes agreed I couldn't put it

851
00:34:04,710 --> 00:33:59,619
any better okay okay tell you what let's

852
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:04,720
uh let's have you pick another category

853
00:34:08,010 --> 00:34:06,399
we might have covered some of these but

854
00:34:11,399 --> 00:34:08,020
we'll still see where it goes

855
00:34:13,409 --> 00:34:11,409
sure will you send me an email the other

856
00:34:16,169 --> 00:34:13,419
day about Rogan Shermer and you saw that

857
00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:16,179
video that I'd put up what did you have

858
00:34:27,029 --> 00:34:22,720
in mind there Oh just walked right into

859
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:27,039
that one didn't you so you did a very

860
00:34:31,769 --> 00:34:29,649
nice video if people go to your YouTube

861
00:34:34,279 --> 00:34:31,779
channel you'll find kind of all these

862
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:34,289
videos that you've done some are very

863
00:34:38,879 --> 00:34:36,970
instructional almost they're supportive

864
00:34:40,619 --> 00:34:38,889
of the book in a way that says okay if

865
00:34:42,809 --> 00:34:40,629
you read the book you know here's a

866
00:34:44,849 --> 00:34:42,819
little lecture on that that's great

867
00:34:46,889 --> 00:34:44,859
stuff and then you also do just some

868
00:34:49,260 --> 00:34:46,899
kind of commentary stuff and one of the

869
00:34:50,879 --> 00:34:49,270
things you like to do is talk about the

870
00:34:52,889 --> 00:34:50,889
Joe Rogan experience you like the Joe

871
00:34:56,549 --> 00:34:52,899
Rogan experience mixed feelings about

872
00:34:58,349 --> 00:34:56,559
you oh rogon but any rate I stumble

873
00:35:02,760 --> 00:34:58,359
across this video where you're talking

874
00:35:05,460 --> 00:35:02,770
about Rogan and my frenemy Michael

875
00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:05,470
Shermer who is just a super interesting

876
00:35:11,609 --> 00:35:09,910
guy complete I don't want to say he's in

877
00:35:15,210 --> 00:35:11,619
it but cuz I always say stuff like that

878
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:15,220
and then people really get all bent out

879
00:35:18,890 --> 00:35:16,930
of shape then I'm like attacking people

880
00:35:23,309 --> 00:35:18,900
or stuff like that but it's just that I

881
00:35:26,250 --> 00:35:23,319
mean here's what I said to Shermer when

882
00:35:27,839 --> 00:35:26,260
he was on skeptic oh that is you know

883
00:35:28,620 --> 00:35:27,849
just kind of harsh but true let's see if

884
00:35:30,170 --> 00:35:28,630
you can hear this

885
00:35:32,940 --> 00:35:30,180
okay they had over a hundred

886
00:35:36,210 --> 00:35:32,950
peer-reviewed papers that they included

887
00:35:38,670 --> 00:35:36,220
in their book by now there's over 200

888
00:35:40,740 --> 00:35:38,680
peer-reviewed papers you see any of that

889
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:40,750
in your book I think it's important we

890
00:35:44,940 --> 00:35:43,330
make it look yeah I don't have to cite

891
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:44,950
everybody that's ever written on the

892
00:35:47,930 --> 00:35:47,050
subject but you know any of them you

893
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:47,940
don't say

894
00:35:55,710 --> 00:35:53,280
yes I'm Ramos am carnea who else yeah

895
00:36:02,790 --> 00:35:55,720
presented both of them but you at least

896
00:36:04,530 --> 00:36:02,800
cited them I like to give some people a

897
00:36:06,780 --> 00:36:04,540
hard time and Michael Shermer is one of

898
00:36:10,050 --> 00:36:06,790
them this is this conversation they're

899
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:10,060
having about near-death experience

900
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:12,490
science something I've looked into a lot

901
00:36:17,970 --> 00:36:15,010
it be not because I've had a near-death

902
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:17,980
experience the reason I looked into it

903
00:36:22,170 --> 00:36:20,290
is because it really fundamentally gets

904
00:36:25,020 --> 00:36:22,180
to one of these questions that you

905
00:36:27,540 --> 00:36:25,030
touched on in talking about your books

906
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:27,550
but I think we need to hash out further

907
00:36:36,450 --> 00:36:32,650
and that is does consciousness extend

908
00:36:38,730 --> 00:36:36,460
beyond bodily death and if it does what

909
00:36:42,900 --> 00:36:38,740
does that tell us about the nature of

910
00:36:46,430 --> 00:36:42,910
consciousness and the brain because if

911
00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:46,440
consciousness is happening at a time

912
00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:50,110
when our neurological models suggest

913
00:36:54,860 --> 00:36:51,760
that consciousness can't occur in the

914
00:36:57,630 --> 00:36:54,870
brain right right let's talk about

915
00:37:01,580 --> 00:36:57,640
near-death experience science and

916
00:37:04,650 --> 00:37:01,590
whether or not it suggests that

917
00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:04,660
consciousness extends beyond bodily

918
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:08,560
death and what that might mean for this

919
00:37:13,170 --> 00:37:11,530
brain science that is really impressive

920
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:13,180
and that you know you've said it so

921
00:37:22,620 --> 00:37:18,610
often okay so to cut to the chase I have

922
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:22,630
a eat I have two feet one in each boat

923
00:37:29,970 --> 00:37:26,770
on our experience of consciousness is

924
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:29,980
certainly connected to the brain and our

925
00:37:37,220 --> 00:37:33,280
ability to experience what our brain

926
00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:37,230
gives us but then also I am a fan of

927
00:37:41,529 --> 00:37:40,960
consciousness is a non-local phenomena

928
00:37:48,129 --> 00:37:41,539
so

929
00:37:52,539 --> 00:37:48,139
I understand consciousness is

930
00:37:54,249 --> 00:37:52,549
fundamental and as a portion of the

931
00:37:56,169 --> 00:37:54,259
quantum foam of the universe it creates

932
00:37:59,469 --> 00:37:56,179
absolutely everything

933
00:38:01,089 --> 00:37:59,479
lest it doesn't exist so basically the

934
00:38:04,599 --> 00:38:01,099
quantum field has to be there operating

935
00:38:06,819 --> 00:38:04,609
in its mystic operation or 3d space

936
00:38:08,409 --> 00:38:06,829
cannot exist in those places because

937
00:38:11,439 --> 00:38:08,419
quantum mechanics creates all of the

938
00:38:14,349 --> 00:38:11,449
physical universe in its infinitude

939
00:38:18,839 --> 00:38:14,359
right and so as a functional component

940
00:38:22,349 --> 00:38:18,849
of the quantum mechanics magic

941
00:38:24,969 --> 00:38:22,359
consciousness is fundamental now our

942
00:38:27,939 --> 00:38:24,979
experience our personal experience of

943
00:38:31,389 --> 00:38:27,949
consciousness I think is dependent on

944
00:38:33,429 --> 00:38:31,399
the brain being there to a certain

945
00:38:36,219 --> 00:38:33,439
extent in this human form now do we

946
00:38:37,899 --> 00:38:36,229
continue on I believe we do okay I do

947
00:38:40,149 --> 00:38:37,909
believe that there is a canonical

948
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:40,159
component of consciousness that allows

949
00:38:46,179 --> 00:38:43,249
us to continue forward and so and that's

950
00:38:48,189 --> 00:38:46,189
what the science in the blue book volume

951
00:38:50,769 --> 00:38:48,199
two points out that you know there was

952
00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:50,779
this and I don't know if you're a fan of

953
00:38:58,059 --> 00:38:54,880
or Co R or not I know you've had some

954
00:39:00,929 --> 00:38:58,069
discussions about yeah so they're the

955
00:39:07,179 --> 00:39:00,939
the Oracle our theory is that you know

956
00:39:10,569 --> 00:39:07,189
consciousness is a portion is partially

957
00:39:13,449 --> 00:39:10,579
caused by these microtubules in our

958
00:39:16,089 --> 00:39:13,459
neurons and the neurons all is made up

959
00:39:17,559 --> 00:39:16,099
of microtubules the synapses are made of

960
00:39:18,909 --> 00:39:17,569
microtubules it's like you know your

961
00:39:20,529 --> 00:39:18,919
brain wouldn't be able to be there and

962
00:39:21,999 --> 00:39:20,539
function without these microtubules well

963
00:39:25,409 --> 00:39:22,009
they interact the theory was they

964
00:39:27,699 --> 00:39:25,419
interacted with quantum vibrations and

965
00:39:30,609 --> 00:39:27,709
so for the longest time there was this

966
00:39:32,289 --> 00:39:30,619
argument that said well the quantum

967
00:39:34,269 --> 00:39:32,299
field can't interact with you know

968
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:34,279
physical matter first of all then second

969
00:39:36,699 --> 00:39:35,359
of all is not going to interact with

970
00:39:39,879 --> 00:39:36,709
these microtubules even though they are

971
00:39:41,889 --> 00:39:39,889
the right shape in the in the warm and

972
00:39:43,809 --> 00:39:41,899
wet environment of the brain and well in

973
00:39:46,209 --> 00:39:43,819
Tsukuba Japan they prove that that was

974
00:39:50,259 --> 00:39:46,219
incorrect they did prove that would by

975
00:39:52,989 --> 00:39:50,269
taking neurons brain matter and

976
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:52,999
measuring it that those do interact with

977
00:39:56,140 --> 00:39:55,010
quantum field vibrations and

978
00:39:58,840 --> 00:39:56,150
typically they do so in the gamma

979
00:40:00,580 --> 00:39:58,850
spectrum and the gamma spectrum is

980
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:00,590
important because the gamma waves in the

981
00:40:04,300 --> 00:40:02,450
brain they used to classify them as

982
00:40:05,980 --> 00:40:04,310
brain noise they misunderstood them for

983
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:05,990
the longest time and now just recently

984
00:40:08,830 --> 00:40:07,280
they start to understand they're the

985
00:40:10,420 --> 00:40:08,840
most important brain waves we have

986
00:40:12,910 --> 00:40:10,430
because they're the highly integrative

987
00:40:14,350 --> 00:40:12,920
brain waves that take a lot of

988
00:40:15,820 --> 00:40:14,360
information from a lot of different

989
00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:15,830
sources and put the big picture together

990
00:40:19,030 --> 00:40:16,400
for us

991
00:40:21,690 --> 00:40:19,040
etc they're also highly correlative to

992
00:40:23,590 --> 00:40:21,700
our altruism and higher virtues

993
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:23,600
unconditional love they're measured

994
00:40:26,620 --> 00:40:25,370
highest in the monks of Tibet who sit

995
00:40:28,060 --> 00:40:26,630
around meditating on our pain and

996
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:28,070
suffering all day because they suppose

997
00:40:32,650 --> 00:40:31,370
they don't have any etc these are some

998
00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:32,660
of the most important brain waves that

999
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:34,400
we have and it just so happens that

1000
00:40:39,460 --> 00:40:36,770
these microtubules in our brains are

1001
00:40:41,710 --> 00:40:39,470
vibrating with the quantum vibration of

1002
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:41,720
the universe which could be you know

1003
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:44,810
first of all dialed into a frequency of

1004
00:40:48,190 --> 00:40:46,850
love from a scientific perspective which

1005
00:40:49,930 --> 00:40:48,200
is kind of crazy the science is leading

1006
00:40:52,750 --> 00:40:49,940
us towards you know first of all this

1007
00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:52,760
field is unitive it's absolutely one

1008
00:40:57,370 --> 00:40:54,310
with everything it's part of the whole

1009
00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:57,380
fabric of the universe and it's made of

1010
00:41:02,680 --> 00:40:58,880
love well you know where we heard that

1011
00:41:06,220 --> 00:41:02,690
message before right so the question

1012
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:06,230
becomes a semantic one where where's the

1013
00:41:11,500 --> 00:41:09,130
delineation of your awareness that gets

1014
00:41:13,060 --> 00:41:11,510
quarantined away from the rest of this

1015
00:41:15,130 --> 00:41:13,070
consciousness how much of the

1016
00:41:17,380 --> 00:41:15,140
consciousness that we have is being

1017
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:17,390
picked up as kind of a carrier wave or a

1018
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:19,040
specific wave that we're then

1019
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:21,170
interpreting through our physical body

1020
00:41:26,860 --> 00:41:25,040
and having experiences associated with

1021
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:26,870
consciousness that wouldn't be there if

1022
00:41:31,780 --> 00:41:28,850
the whole thing wasn't conscious right

1023
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:31,790
so that's kind of where I sit in a you

1024
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:34,130
know first of all I don't know I'm not

1025
00:41:38,290 --> 00:41:36,770
sure right none of us are sure that soon

1026
00:41:40,060 --> 00:41:38,300
as we start to put words to this stuff

1027
00:41:42,970 --> 00:41:40,070
we start walking off the path of truth

1028
00:41:46,090 --> 00:41:42,980
because we try to put concepts concepts

1029
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:46,100
to these things that are potentially

1030
00:41:51,970 --> 00:41:48,970
beyond our ability to understand them

1031
00:41:53,110 --> 00:41:51,980
but at the same time it's like well you

1032
00:41:56,220 --> 00:41:53,120
know the model kind of fits together

1033
00:42:01,120 --> 00:41:56,230
like this in that we can certainly have

1034
00:42:03,220 --> 00:42:01,130
individual experiences of consciousness

1035
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:03,230
and I believe that there are multiple

1036
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:04,880
levels of consciousness within us and I

1037
00:42:08,589 --> 00:42:06,890
think the science you know supports that

1038
00:42:10,210 --> 00:42:08,599
in that when you look at the science of

1039
00:42:12,009 --> 00:42:10,220
split brain patients you have multiple

1040
00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:12,019
consciousnesses in there that are

1041
00:42:15,819 --> 00:42:13,730
arguing about something like if you take

1042
00:42:17,829 --> 00:42:15,829
a knife and you cut the corpus callosum

1043
00:42:19,150 --> 00:42:17,839
and you ask somebody who has a left

1044
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:19,160
brain and the right brain can no longer

1045
00:42:22,299 --> 00:42:20,510
talk to each other anymore

1046
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:22,309
you ask them what they want to be when

1047
00:42:26,380 --> 00:42:24,650
they grow up one side writes out race

1048
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:26,390
car driver with one hand the other side

1049
00:42:30,490 --> 00:42:28,130
writes out doctor there are two

1050
00:42:31,930 --> 00:42:30,500
consciousness levels in there well there

1051
00:42:32,859 --> 00:42:31,940
are multiple consciousness levels in

1052
00:42:34,930 --> 00:42:32,869
there I mean there are consciousness

1053
00:42:37,269 --> 00:42:34,940
levels that you know beat our heart and

1054
00:42:40,799 --> 00:42:37,279
run our immune system and you know react

1055
00:42:43,779 --> 00:42:40,809
on a cellular level even and they're all

1056
00:42:46,779 --> 00:42:43,789
kind of separated with these lines of

1057
00:42:48,099 --> 00:42:46,789
demarcation that help them only take the

1058
00:42:49,930 --> 00:42:48,109
amount of information that they can

1059
00:42:52,569 --> 00:42:49,940
handle and that's where our waking

1060
00:42:54,220 --> 00:42:52,579
awareness is also like if we were handed

1061
00:42:56,019 --> 00:42:54,230
the responsibility to beat her hard to

1062
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:56,029
run our nervous system to run our

1063
00:43:00,430 --> 00:42:58,640
digestive system to run our immune

1064
00:43:02,529 --> 00:43:00,440
system to do all the things that are

1065
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:02,539
required to have us survive from today

1066
00:43:06,490 --> 00:43:04,730
and tomorrow we die right there would be

1067
00:43:08,859 --> 00:43:06,500
too much information for us to process

1068
00:43:10,299 --> 00:43:08,869
and so those things need to be separated

1069
00:43:11,620 --> 00:43:10,309
at multiple levels of consciousness down

1070
00:43:16,749 --> 00:43:11,630
within our body well there's nothing

1071
00:43:18,309 --> 00:43:16,759
that says that we aren't limited to what

1072
00:43:20,559 --> 00:43:18,319
we can handle up here in our waking

1073
00:43:23,740 --> 00:43:20,569
awareness and that we aren't connected

1074
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:23,750
out into universal consciousness because

1075
00:43:27,970 --> 00:43:26,089
I think you know obviously the wirings

1076
00:43:29,349 --> 00:43:27,980
there and we've proven that it's there

1077
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:29,359
that it's there and that our neurons

1078
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:31,970
actually do interact with this magical

1079
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:34,970
quantum field let's can I stop right

1080
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:36,170
there and jump yeah because I want to

1081
00:43:41,049 --> 00:43:39,200
make sure we don't go too far I love

1082
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:41,059
everything you said and right people who

1083
00:43:46,269 --> 00:43:44,480
are really into this they can go to

1084
00:43:48,670 --> 00:43:46,279
school on everything you said I want to

1085
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:48,680
make sure we kind of cover the bases so

1086
00:43:55,539 --> 00:43:50,720
you're talking about the work of dr.

1087
00:43:57,460 --> 00:43:55,549
Stuart Hameroff and Penrose right yes it

1088
00:43:59,769 --> 00:43:57,470
so Hameroff was at the university or

1089
00:44:02,799 --> 00:43:59,779
zona he's been on the show once or twice

1090
00:44:04,900 --> 00:44:02,809
I can't remember you've been invited to

1091
00:44:06,730 --> 00:44:04,910
speak at the consciousness conference in

1092
00:44:08,289 --> 00:44:06,740
Tucson which is quite an honor a

1093
00:44:10,450 --> 00:44:08,299
distinction which you have it just

1094
00:44:13,269 --> 00:44:10,460
awesome and you've had conversations

1095
00:44:16,589 --> 00:44:13,279
with Hameroff about this so what's

1096
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:16,599
important about Hameroff and the

1097
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:20,330
microtubule thing and the link to

1098
00:44:26,230 --> 00:44:23,930
quantum science is that here's a guy as

1099
00:44:28,420 --> 00:44:26,240
I understand it who's tried to bridge

1100
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:28,430
that gap that you're just describing so

1101
00:44:33,070 --> 00:44:30,610
you have these really stuck in the mud

1102
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:33,080
neuroscience types that say no no no

1103
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:34,610
it's all brain drain brain consciousness

1104
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:36,770
is an illusion is fundamentally the

1105
00:44:40,270 --> 00:44:38,570
intellectual position they take yeah

1106
00:44:42,220 --> 00:44:40,280
justice is an illusion it's an epic

1107
00:44:44,170 --> 00:44:42,230
phenomena the brain and if he's come

1108
00:44:46,090 --> 00:44:44,180
along and said wait a minute you like

1109
00:44:48,670 --> 00:44:46,100
quantum physics don't you what if I

1110
00:44:52,270 --> 00:44:48,680
could show you how quantum physics seems

1111
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:52,280
to be predisposed to connect with this

1112
00:44:57,460 --> 00:44:54,170
thing that you're really uncomfortable

1113
00:44:59,020 --> 00:44:57,470
with called consciousness right then he

1114
00:45:00,460 --> 00:44:59,030
says here are these microtubules and

1115
00:45:02,890 --> 00:45:00,470
look don't they fit and then there's

1116
00:45:04,810 --> 00:45:02,900
further studies although I kind of worry

1117
00:45:06,100 --> 00:45:04,820
a little bit that once we get down that

1118
00:45:08,110 --> 00:45:06,110
path and you start talking about the

1119
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:08,120
levels we're back into a form of

1120
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:10,010
materialism but then you brought us back

1121
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:13,520
in a way of how that maybe can solve

1122
00:45:17,470 --> 00:45:15,920
both problems the problem of the larger

1123
00:45:20,380 --> 00:45:17,480
consciousness the universal

1124
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:20,390
consciousness and the experience that we

1125
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:22,610
have and we seem to be able to study

1126
00:45:28,210 --> 00:45:24,890
inside our physical body I'm gonna

1127
00:45:29,890 --> 00:45:28,220
return you to the near-death experience

1128
00:45:31,570 --> 00:45:29,900
science though just for a minute because

1129
00:45:34,330 --> 00:45:31,580
our people now understand what I meant

1130
00:45:35,980 --> 00:45:34,340
about this kind of friendly deep dive

1131
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:35,990
debate I mean if you're following us

1132
00:45:40,330 --> 00:45:38,330
this far then you're in the soup and you

1133
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:40,340
probably like this stuff if not it

1134
00:45:45,550 --> 00:45:42,650
turned off already because it's just too

1135
00:45:47,710 --> 00:45:45,560
weird well let's take it let's before we

1136
00:45:50,890 --> 00:45:47,720
totally leave Shermer an NDE let's talk

1137
00:45:55,750 --> 00:45:50,900
about the elephant in the room also that

1138
00:45:58,570 --> 00:45:55,760
is counterintuitive that you know 35% of

1139
00:46:00,880 --> 00:45:58,580
us or more have these like near-death

1140
00:46:02,890 --> 00:46:00,890
experiences or these unitive experiences

1141
00:46:05,290 --> 00:46:02,900
as William James would classify them

1142
00:46:06,970 --> 00:46:05,300
these enlightenment experiences these

1143
00:46:08,350 --> 00:46:06,980
miniature awakenings you know they're

1144
00:46:12,810 --> 00:46:08,360
all I kind of put them all under the

1145
00:46:16,060 --> 00:46:12,820
same umbrella and so the the materialist

1146
00:46:18,490 --> 00:46:16,070
position on why we have opposable thumbs

1147
00:46:20,230 --> 00:46:18,500
is that the monkeys who accidentally

1148
00:46:22,770 --> 00:46:20,240
grew opposable thumbs were able to grab

1149
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:22,780
the banana is easier and so thus became

1150
00:46:30,820 --> 00:46:28,010
a functioning digit on our evolution and

1151
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:30,830
the monkeys that had those thumbs and

1152
00:46:35,650 --> 00:46:33,890
mated went on to create new

1153
00:46:37,570 --> 00:46:35,660
keys etc that ultimately became us with

1154
00:46:42,130 --> 00:46:37,580
opposable thumbs etc and so their whole

1155
00:46:46,870 --> 00:46:42,140
model of existence as it develops is one

1156
00:46:47,500 --> 00:46:46,880
based on a an evolution that is survival

1157
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:47,510
of the fittest

1158
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:51,200
right natural selection but in this

1159
00:46:58,030 --> 00:46:55,850
other space of n bees or awakenings or

1160
00:46:58,710 --> 00:46:58,040
enlightenment experiences or whatever it

1161
00:47:01,410 --> 00:46:58,720
is

1162
00:47:03,730 --> 00:47:01,420
typically those things happen after

1163
00:47:05,860 --> 00:47:03,740
procreation age and of course they

1164
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:05,870
happen at near death or at the end of

1165
00:47:08,770 --> 00:47:06,890
life because a lot of people have

1166
00:47:12,550 --> 00:47:08,780
near-death experiences and then go on

1167
00:47:13,930 --> 00:47:12,560
and die and then other folks have these

1168
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:13,940
near-death experiences and come back and

1169
00:47:17,830 --> 00:47:16,010
tell of stories that are extremely

1170
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:17,840
meaningful for those folks and that are

1171
00:47:22,060 --> 00:47:20,000
life-changing and that are extremely

1172
00:47:24,340 --> 00:47:22,070
beneficial and we've had a number of

1173
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:24,350
studies like you know even just like the

1174
00:47:30,100 --> 00:47:27,490
psilocybin studies from the 60s and 70s

1175
00:47:34,660 --> 00:47:30,110
90 some odd percent of those people who

1176
00:47:36,370 --> 00:47:34,670
experienced the chemical that we kind of

1177
00:47:37,750 --> 00:47:36,380
want to theorize as being dumped into

1178
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:37,760
the body naturally during these

1179
00:47:42,060 --> 00:47:39,170
experiences that we have of

1180
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:42,070
consciousness expanding in our own heads

1181
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:44,330
90 some percent of those folks like

1182
00:47:46,990 --> 00:47:45,770
thirty four percent of those folks on

1183
00:47:48,430 --> 00:47:47,000
that study said it was the most

1184
00:47:50,500 --> 00:47:48,440
meaningful experience of their entire

1185
00:47:52,060 --> 00:47:50,510
life another third of those folks said

1186
00:47:54,610 --> 00:47:52,070
it was definitely in the top five of the

1187
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:54,620
top ten of the most meaningful

1188
00:47:57,670 --> 00:47:56,210
experiences their entire life and then

1189
00:47:59,410 --> 00:47:57,680
the other folks said yeah you know it

1190
00:48:01,510 --> 00:47:59,420
was it was amazing just so people know

1191
00:48:03,790 --> 00:48:01,520
this is Rick Strassman University New

1192
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:03,800
Mexico the first guy who was given

1193
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:05,930
permission to use his controlled

1194
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:09,050
substance DMT and a lot of the spirit

1195
00:48:13,570 --> 00:48:11,810
molecule Joe Brogan was did the movie

1196
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:13,580
for it a lot of people have reported on

1197
00:48:17,860 --> 00:48:15,170
it and it's good moving and it's a good

1198
00:48:20,620 --> 00:48:17,870
good work and they not only see those

1199
00:48:22,690 --> 00:48:20,630
things but they also see shamanic beings

1200
00:48:24,940 --> 00:48:22,700
you know the purple Jaguar that's also

1201
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:24,950
hume and they also see ET over there and

1202
00:48:31,390 --> 00:48:28,250
ET says hey I've been waiting for you

1203
00:48:34,150 --> 00:48:31,400
right right so there's all that kind of

1204
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:34,160
stuff so that's all good and I'm with

1205
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:36,530
you on all that that the reason I wanted

1206
00:48:41,710 --> 00:48:40,130
to circle back in near-death experience

1207
00:48:43,390 --> 00:48:41,720
and it kind of gets my point earlier of

1208
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:43,400
I don't have any special interest in

1209
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:45,440
near-death experience to me it's just

1210
00:48:48,780 --> 00:48:47,290
the cleanest way to get at this

1211
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:48,790
key thing because one of the things he

1212
00:48:52,890 --> 00:48:50,290
left out of the near-death experience

1213
00:48:55,770 --> 00:48:52,900
that I would kind of remind folks of is

1214
00:48:57,930 --> 00:48:55,780
that number one the reason that

1215
00:49:00,480 --> 00:48:57,940
near-death experience has been studied

1216
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:00,490
as much as it has scientifically with

1217
00:49:04,980 --> 00:49:02,650
peer-reviewed papers in the hospital

1218
00:49:07,980 --> 00:49:04,990
work in cardiac arrest words because

1219
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:07,990
they after they you know Raymond Moody

1220
00:49:12,450 --> 00:49:09,760
was the first guy the first researcher

1221
00:49:15,510 --> 00:49:12,460
to stumble across the near-death

1222
00:49:17,310 --> 00:49:15,520
experience back in 1975 and he was

1223
00:49:20,849 --> 00:49:17,320
really turned on to it by Elizabeth

1224
00:49:23,609 --> 00:49:20,859
kubler-ross who's kind of famous in the

1225
00:49:25,470 --> 00:49:23,619
hospice and just grieving community and

1226
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:25,480
stuff like that but as she was doing

1227
00:49:30,710 --> 00:49:27,130
that work with the dying she ran across

1228
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:30,720
the near-death experience and she said

1229
00:49:35,730 --> 00:49:34,090
we can't we can't handle this we can't

1230
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:35,740
people aren't ready for this so she just

1231
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:38,410
dishes it off - Raymond Mitty in 1975

1232
00:49:41,490 --> 00:49:39,490
and he goes out and does the whole

1233
00:49:43,590 --> 00:49:41,500
things is okay you know here's here's

1234
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:43,600
what's going on I understand it but then

1235
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:46,210
the research from them really shifted in

1236
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:47,200
a way that a lot of people don't

1237
00:49:51,810 --> 00:49:50,170
appreciate and understand in that the

1238
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:51,820
real scientists took over the medical

1239
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:53,680
scientist and they said okay how are we

1240
00:49:56,970 --> 00:49:54,880
gonna get to the bottom of this because

1241
00:50:00,900 --> 00:49:56,980
because clearly what these people are

1242
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:00,910
reporting blows away the neurological

1243
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:02,530
model it blows it away because now

1244
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:04,570
people are not just talking about having

1245
00:50:07,710 --> 00:50:06,130
this unit of experience that you're

1246
00:50:11,730 --> 00:50:07,720
talking about they're talking about

1247
00:50:14,670 --> 00:50:11,740
being above their body and looking down

1248
00:50:16,830 --> 00:50:14,680
and seeing and hearing things at a time

1249
00:50:19,620 --> 00:50:16,840
when their brain is not capable of

1250
00:50:22,050 --> 00:50:19,630
conscious experience that is the claim

1251
00:50:24,180 --> 00:50:22,060
you don't really claim that is the claim

1252
00:50:25,140 --> 00:50:24,190
correct so now we're gonna go into the

1253
00:50:27,780 --> 00:50:25,150
science because you're gonna see the

1254
00:50:29,910 --> 00:50:27,790
claim is the claim is accepted by every

1255
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:29,920
nerve every near-death experience

1256
00:50:34,290 --> 00:50:31,450
scientist who's ever looked at it and

1257
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:34,300
they've stood all the Schirmer esque

1258
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:37,810
silly kind of objection skeptical

1259
00:50:40,740 --> 00:50:39,280
objections that were really handled

1260
00:50:42,990 --> 00:50:40,750
within the first days but what I'm

1261
00:50:44,430 --> 00:50:43,000
telling you is that a lot of people I'm

1262
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:44,440
not just telling it to you Sean but a

1263
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:46,480
lot of people don't realize it this is

1264
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:50,650
now moving ahead 1970s 1980s 1990s where

1265
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:52,330
they finally get and they said okay now

1266
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:54,250
how we really going to hone in on this

1267
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:55,450
you know because we have these reports

1268
00:50:58,140 --> 00:50:57,280
of people who drowned that report a

1269
00:50:59,580 --> 00:50:58,150
near-death experience

1270
00:51:00,849 --> 00:50:59,590
we have people have jumped off the

1271
00:51:03,039 --> 00:51:00,859
Golden Gate Bridge you

1272
00:51:05,499 --> 00:51:03,049
a near-death experience yes clearly they

1273
00:51:08,410 --> 00:51:05,509
don't have the same physiological things

1274
00:51:10,329 --> 00:51:08,420
going on in their body right as Shermer

1275
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:10,339
miss reports in that interview that you

1276
00:51:14,769 --> 00:51:13,130
liked so much he goes hey but yeah we

1277
00:51:16,210 --> 00:51:14,779
can see that happening with these guys

1278
00:51:17,859 --> 00:51:16,220
we put them in the centrifuge and they

1279
00:51:20,650 --> 00:51:17,869
have that and my point he brought that

1280
00:51:22,660 --> 00:51:20,660
up to me my punch room is exactly that

1281
00:51:24,819 --> 00:51:22,670
way that's your problem you can't you

1282
00:51:27,759 --> 00:51:24,829
have no way in the neurological model

1283
00:51:29,859 --> 00:51:27,769
that is existing to explain how such

1284
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:29,869
different physiological states of the

1285
00:51:34,989 --> 00:51:32,930
brain could produce the same experience

1286
00:51:36,940 --> 00:51:34,999
but more importantly if you really drill

1287
00:51:39,279 --> 00:51:36,950
into the near-death experience again

1288
00:51:42,819 --> 00:51:39,289
back to the science what they then do is

1289
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:42,829
they say okay let's go to the cardiac

1290
00:51:51,900 --> 00:51:48,650
arrest ward because we now know pretty

1291
00:51:55,390 --> 00:51:51,910
well what happens to a person's brain

1292
00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:55,400
after they have a cardiac arrest and you

1293
00:51:59,620 --> 00:51:57,890
know that the blood flow hold on we know

1294
00:52:02,769 --> 00:51:59,630
that the blood flow to the brain stops

1295
00:52:05,380 --> 00:52:02,779
and we know from 40 or 50 years of EEG

1296
00:52:10,150 --> 00:52:05,390
study that once the blood flow stops the

1297
00:52:13,150 --> 00:52:10,160
EEG activity happens now so that is the

1298
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:13,160
starting point for this research that

1299
00:52:17,589 --> 00:52:15,200
we're gonna whether we're gonna dive

1300
00:52:18,789 --> 00:52:17,599
into so let me stop and let you say yeah

1301
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:18,799
I think cuz you have an objection that

1302
00:52:25,299 --> 00:52:23,450
I'm gonna slap down but go ahead this

1303
00:52:28,359 --> 00:52:25,309
back and forth all right so there's two

1304
00:52:31,089 --> 00:52:28,369
thoughts on that and one is a one is in

1305
00:52:33,190 --> 00:52:31,099
each boat again the first thought is to

1306
00:52:35,249 --> 00:52:33,200
close the the statement or the thought

1307
00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:35,259
that I had that we were going forwards

1308
00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:37,730
in that you are correct

1309
00:52:42,940 --> 00:52:39,730
that you know these are amazing and

1310
00:52:44,650 --> 00:52:42,950
there are physiologically similar

1311
00:52:46,870 --> 00:52:44,660
reactions that everybody is having this

1312
00:52:48,789 --> 00:52:46,880
isn't like an anomalous type of reaction

1313
00:52:50,979 --> 00:52:48,799
that people are having when we talk

1314
00:52:52,839 --> 00:52:50,989
about subjective data in science period

1315
00:52:54,309 --> 00:52:52,849
subjective data is just that as stuff

1316
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:54,319
you want to throw out but at certain

1317
00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:56,210
point when you collect a certain amount

1318
00:53:00,910 --> 00:52:58,480
of subjective data from a large enough

1319
00:53:04,269 --> 00:53:00,920
number of samples all of a sudden that

1320
00:53:05,829 --> 00:53:04,279
becomes scientific my question is if

1321
00:53:07,420 --> 00:53:05,839
we're having these experiences these

1322
00:53:10,509 --> 00:53:07,430
unitive experiences these consciousness

1323
00:53:12,580 --> 00:53:10,519
expansion experiences what is the

1324
00:53:15,090 --> 00:53:12,590
natural selection

1325
00:53:18,250 --> 00:53:15,100
function and how could it have been

1326
00:53:20,260 --> 00:53:18,260
created in a fashion that natural

1327
00:53:22,180 --> 00:53:20,270
selection then fosters that to occur so

1328
00:53:24,330 --> 00:53:22,190
then you know which the answer is it

1329
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:24,340
can't because you're having these

1330
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:26,450
unitive experiences these awakening

1331
00:53:31,690 --> 00:53:29,290
experiences past the point of

1332
00:53:34,450 --> 00:53:31,700
procreation so you're not passing those

1333
00:53:37,660 --> 00:53:34,460
genes down so these things must be

1334
00:53:40,140 --> 00:53:37,670
fundamental in nature but the other side

1335
00:53:43,630 --> 00:53:40,150
of that to jump to your recent point of

1336
00:53:46,450 --> 00:53:43,640
the brain can't have conscious

1337
00:53:48,490 --> 00:53:46,460
experience in these instances of heart

1338
00:53:51,670 --> 00:53:48,500
attack and things like that I take

1339
00:53:53,770 --> 00:53:51,680
exception to and here's why we don't

1340
00:53:56,470 --> 00:53:53,780
understand the brain well enough to be

1341
00:53:59,260 --> 00:53:56,480
able to make that statement in my belief

1342
00:54:01,630 --> 00:53:59,270
now there's been studies that have

1343
00:54:03,850 --> 00:54:01,640
simulated heart attacks in mice where

1344
00:54:05,470 --> 00:54:03,860
they've had the brain scanners on the

1345
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:05,480
mice and the brains go nuts

1346
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:08,210
after the oxygen deprivation sets in and

1347
00:54:12,100 --> 00:54:10,250
the blood flow stops going to the brain

1348
00:54:14,050 --> 00:54:12,110
and then the brain by truth that's not

1349
00:54:16,540 --> 00:54:14,060
quite true and what you're referring to

1350
00:54:20,140 --> 00:54:16,550
is a study done at the University of

1351
00:54:22,180 --> 00:54:20,150
Michigan largely misunderstood it's like

1352
00:54:26,500 --> 00:54:22,190
so many studies I've reported on that

1353
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:26,510
the neuroscience and materialistic

1354
00:54:32,830 --> 00:54:29,810
atheistic science props up these little

1355
00:54:35,020 --> 00:54:32,840
studies that are done you know that

1356
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:35,030
somehow they can create some kind of

1357
00:54:39,100 --> 00:54:37,250
connection to near-death experience one

1358
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:39,110
that study doesn't reference near-death

1359
00:54:43,060 --> 00:54:40,640
experience at all right but the

1360
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:43,070
important thing about that study is that

1361
00:54:48,130 --> 00:54:46,400
what they show is really supportive of

1362
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:48,140
the existing model we have with one

1363
00:54:52,810 --> 00:54:50,810
exception so the mice died the mice are

1364
00:54:55,540 --> 00:54:52,820
killed as part of the experiment right

1365
00:54:58,540 --> 00:54:55,550
we're tracking their EEG the EEG goes

1366
00:55:00,700 --> 00:54:58,550
flat that's what we'd expect after some

1367
00:55:05,140 --> 00:55:00,710
prolonged period of time there's this

1368
00:55:08,650 --> 00:55:05,150
burst of activity in the mice right sure

1369
00:55:10,770 --> 00:55:08,660
this does not correlate well with what

1370
00:55:13,330 --> 00:55:10,780
that's experienced but the near-death

1371
00:55:16,270 --> 00:55:13,340
experiences and in a minute I might play

1372
00:55:19,420 --> 00:55:16,280
you a clip but one major problem you

1373
00:55:21,580 --> 00:55:19,430
have is the continuity of experience

1374
00:55:23,890 --> 00:55:21,590
people say is I was stabbed in the chest

1375
00:55:26,260 --> 00:55:23,900
yeah all of a sudden I was outside of my

1376
00:55:28,090 --> 00:55:26,270
body I was still alive

1377
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:28,100
they hooked me up in the ambulance I got

1378
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:30,410
to the hospital and then I died and I

1379
00:55:34,030 --> 00:55:32,690
left and I went to this place and then I

1380
00:55:36,430 --> 00:55:34,040
came back and then I saw him

1381
00:55:38,620 --> 00:55:36,440
resuscitating there is a continuation of

1382
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:38,630
experience that doesn't fit the little

1383
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:40,730
mouse model but right other thing about

1384
00:55:45,540 --> 00:55:43,130
the little mouse model is those little

1385
00:55:48,220 --> 00:55:45,550
mouse model and what you just said of

1386
00:55:51,010 --> 00:55:48,230
what you hear all the time from the kind

1387
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:51,020
of Schurman RS kind of in de skeptic

1388
00:55:55,270 --> 00:55:52,370
kind of thing is that

1389
00:55:58,990 --> 00:55:55,280
hey I don't accept that though that the

1390
00:56:01,990 --> 00:55:59,000
brain really is incapable of producing a

1391
00:56:04,990 --> 00:56:02,000
conscious experience let alone remember

1392
00:56:08,110 --> 00:56:05,000
like you just said and we both agree the

1393
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:08,120
most profound conscious experience in

1394
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:10,610
your life right I don't accept that the

1395
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:13,490
brain is incapable of doing that in this

1396
00:56:18,130 --> 00:56:16,490
state I don't you just hold on no no I'm

1397
00:56:19,990 --> 00:56:18,140
not saying that you do I'm saying if

1398
00:56:21,490 --> 00:56:20,000
that's your position then throw the red

1399
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:21,500
book in the blue book throw them in the

1400
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:24,250
trash because because you're then saying

1401
00:56:29,410 --> 00:56:27,200
neuroscience is full of crap they really

1402
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:29,420
know we can't really measure what the

1403
00:56:33,790 --> 00:56:32,000
what the brain is doing it doesn't mean

1404
00:56:36,790 --> 00:56:33,800
anything because there's these times

1405
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:36,800
when the brain can just completely be

1406
00:56:40,900 --> 00:56:38,810
beyond our ability to measure it and

1407
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:40,910
it's still functioning so this is not an

1408
00:56:45,010 --> 00:56:42,890
explanation that gets timbre itare but

1409
00:56:48,130 --> 00:56:45,020
let me let me hold you on one second cuz

1410
00:56:50,500 --> 00:56:48,140
I'm gonna throw some throw an expert at

1411
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:50,510
you and okay because that's the only way

1412
00:56:55,980 --> 00:56:52,010
sometimes to get to the bottom of this

1413
00:56:59,220 --> 00:56:55,990
is one of my favorite guys dr. Jeff long

1414
00:57:03,010 --> 00:56:59,230
cuz written two really important books

1415
00:57:05,830 --> 00:57:03,020
radiation oncologist yeah so he works

1416
00:57:08,170 --> 00:57:05,840
with death and dying all the time as

1417
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:08,180
part of his practice full-time doctor

1418
00:57:12,490 --> 00:57:10,370
who like so many of these near-death

1419
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:12,500
experience researchers just stumbled

1420
00:57:15,940 --> 00:57:14,090
across this and it just stuck in the

1421
00:57:17,620 --> 00:57:15,950
back of his mind because I I got to get

1422
00:57:20,050 --> 00:57:17,630
on with my practice I could have become

1423
00:57:23,020 --> 00:57:20,060
a doctor I got a nurse living but when I

1424
00:57:27,310 --> 00:57:23,030
get a chance this is strange this isn't

1425
00:57:29,170 --> 00:57:27,320
supposed to happen so you know I had him

1426
00:57:32,260 --> 00:57:29,180
on the show and let me play you a clip

1427
00:57:33,910 --> 00:57:32,270
when you're under general anesthesia it

1428
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:33,920
should be impossible to have a lucid

1429
00:57:39,430 --> 00:57:37,370
organized remembrance at that time in

1430
00:57:41,829 --> 00:57:39,440
fact under anesthesia you're typically

1431
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:41,839
far under with general anesthesia they

1432
00:57:45,250 --> 00:57:43,280
often have to breathe for you I mean

1433
00:57:48,339 --> 00:57:45,260
you're literally brain shut down to the

1434
00:57:50,170 --> 00:57:48,349
level of the brainstem and at that point

1435
00:57:51,819 --> 00:57:50,180
in time some people have a cardiac

1436
00:57:53,470 --> 00:57:51,829
arrest their heart stops and of course

1437
00:57:55,630 --> 00:57:53,480
that's very well-documented

1438
00:57:58,240 --> 00:57:55,640
they monitor people very carefully that

1439
00:58:00,069 --> 00:57:58,250
are having general anesthesia so I have

1440
00:58:02,170 --> 00:58:00,079
dozens and dozens of near-death

1441
00:58:03,010 --> 00:58:02,180
experiences that occurred under general

1442
00:58:05,109 --> 00:58:03,020
anesthesia

1443
00:58:07,539 --> 00:58:05,119
and at this time it should be if you

1444
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:07,549
will doubly impossible to have a

1445
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:09,770
conscious remembrance and yet they do

1446
00:58:14,589 --> 00:58:11,930
have near-death experiences at this time

1447
00:58:16,779 --> 00:58:14,599
and their typical near-death experiences

1448
00:58:18,190 --> 00:58:16,789
they have the same elements and appear

1449
00:58:20,049 --> 00:58:18,200
to have them in the same order as

1450
00:58:24,039 --> 00:58:20,059
near-death experiences occurring under

1451
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:24,049
all other okay so let me jump in there

1452
00:58:32,380 --> 00:58:27,250
that's making a huge assumption that

1453
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:32,390
time recording in the brain is occurring

1454
00:58:38,020 --> 00:58:36,650
at a natural pace that is also going on

1455
00:58:40,630 --> 00:58:38,030
during our regular everyday waking

1456
00:58:43,450 --> 00:58:40,640
awareness now one of the things you need

1457
00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:43,460
to point out is the possibility that

1458
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:47,119
time dilation can occur and a lot of

1459
00:58:51,010 --> 00:58:49,010
these experiences and this is this goes

1460
00:58:53,260 --> 00:58:51,020
back to my only thing about Evan

1461
00:58:56,529 --> 00:58:53,270
Alexander story that I don't like in

1462
00:58:57,819 --> 00:58:56,539
that if we're talking let's to remind

1463
00:59:00,480 --> 00:58:57,829
people what we're talking about Evan

1464
00:59:03,670 --> 00:59:00,490
Alexander wrote that awesome book

1465
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:03,680
neuroscience or neurosurgeons proof of

1466
00:59:09,910 --> 00:59:07,730
afterlife proof of heaven and I loved

1467
00:59:11,890 --> 00:59:09,920
every part of that story that eben

1468
00:59:15,809 --> 00:59:11,900
Alexander tells because it's telling of

1469
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:15,819
a kind of a non-standard conscious

1470
00:59:22,420 --> 00:59:19,690
experience that he has that is very

1471
00:59:23,559 --> 00:59:22,430
representative of a lot of experiences

1472
00:59:25,599 --> 00:59:23,569
that other people have in different

1473
00:59:30,359 --> 00:59:25,609
circumstances he seemed to have it

1474
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:30,369
during a very dramatic you know physical

1475
00:59:36,579 --> 00:59:33,170
near-death situation where his body

1476
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:36,589
almost quit there's a bacterial

1477
00:59:42,039 --> 00:59:40,250
meningitis I believe right and so he had

1478
00:59:44,230 --> 00:59:42,049
this experience but the problem there is

1479
00:59:46,269 --> 00:59:44,240
that he assumes that he had this

1480
00:59:47,710 --> 00:59:46,279
experience at the time that his brain

1481
00:59:49,559 --> 00:59:47,720
was shut down now I'm not contest

1482
00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:49,569
contesting that his brain had you know

1483
00:59:54,820 --> 00:59:52,160
flatlined her or you know

1484
00:59:57,060 --> 00:59:54,830
shut down to a large degree but what I

1485
01:00:00,970 --> 00:59:57,070
am saying is there is a possibility that

1486
01:00:04,090 --> 01:00:00,980
in the couple of minutes or two or three

1487
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:04,100
seconds or however long it takes for the

1488
01:00:09,100 --> 01:00:06,170
brain to wake up and is in non-standard

1489
01:00:10,900 --> 01:00:09,110
consciousness a certain level of time

1490
01:00:14,620 --> 01:00:10,910
dilation can occur where you can

1491
01:00:18,130 --> 01:00:14,630
experience a long time of experience a

1492
01:00:19,510 --> 01:00:18,140
lot of a number of things in that very

1493
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:19,520
short amount of time and the only reason

1494
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:21,050
I say that is because I had a waking

1495
01:00:24,310 --> 01:00:22,490
experience as well which has started

1496
01:00:26,020 --> 01:00:24,320
this whole thing which brought about you

1497
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:26,030
know my understanding of emotions that I

1498
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:27,410
put in these two books that were now

1499
01:00:31,270 --> 01:00:28,730
turning into artificial emotional

1500
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:31,280
intelligence yada-yada in an afternoon

1501
01:00:36,730 --> 01:00:34,970
of meditation that I can only assume was

1502
01:00:39,220 --> 01:00:36,740
a five methyl oxy dimethyltryptamine

1503
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:39,230
dumped in my own brain to allow my brain

1504
01:00:44,220 --> 01:00:41,210
into this non-standard conscious I had

1505
01:00:47,140 --> 01:00:44,230
thousands of years of experience from my

1506
01:00:48,850 --> 01:00:47,150
personal perspective in that one

1507
01:00:50,470 --> 01:00:48,860
afternoon I thought I was dead I thought

1508
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:50,480
I had gone off to into the middle of the

1509
01:00:54,340 --> 01:00:52,130
universe to become one with God to be

1510
01:00:56,170 --> 01:00:54,350
God be the whole consciousness soup of

1511
01:00:57,700 --> 01:00:56,180
the entire universe I learned all the

1512
01:01:00,160 --> 01:00:57,710
cool secrets about the universe the

1513
01:01:02,170 --> 01:01:00,170
black holes how multi dimensions work or

1514
01:01:03,850 --> 01:01:02,180
the whole thing that you can't fit back

1515
01:01:05,710 --> 01:01:03,860
into your human brain when you come back

1516
01:01:07,300 --> 01:01:05,720
you understand absolutely everything and

1517
01:01:08,770 --> 01:01:07,310
I was able to bring back a small piece

1518
01:01:10,570 --> 01:01:08,780
of it which we're now creating into

1519
01:01:11,740 --> 01:01:10,580
world-changing science about emotions

1520
01:01:13,180 --> 01:01:11,750
and artificial emotional intelligence

1521
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:13,190
and stuff like that so I mean there is

1522
01:01:17,350 --> 01:01:15,410
there is intelligence out there in

1523
01:01:18,910 --> 01:01:17,360
wherever it is you wouldn't know what's

1524
01:01:20,620 --> 01:01:18,920
called the quantum field or you know

1525
01:01:22,090 --> 01:01:20,630
some type of data set in consciousness

1526
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:22,100
or whatever it is there's stuff that you

1527
01:01:26,820 --> 01:01:24,290
can access out there that is beyond

1528
01:01:30,010 --> 01:01:26,830
human understanding at this point right

1529
01:01:32,470 --> 01:01:30,020
but I had that experience of thousands

1530
01:01:34,060 --> 01:01:32,480
of years of experiences of living

1531
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:34,070
multiple lifetimes through multiple

1532
01:01:38,530 --> 01:01:36,050
bodies through you know all these weird

1533
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:38,540
things that I can you know take a

1534
01:01:43,750 --> 01:01:41,210
lifetime of storytelling to try to tell

1535
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:43,760
you and still not cover it all that

1536
01:01:48,030 --> 01:01:45,770
happened within one afternoon of a

1537
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:48,040
meditation that I had started that

1538
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:50,330
triggered this experience so there was

1539
01:01:54,310 --> 01:01:52,250
some time dilation there for me to

1540
01:01:57,430 --> 01:01:54,320
assume that other brains can't have that

1541
01:02:00,310 --> 01:01:57,440
same type of experience I believe is

1542
01:02:02,980 --> 01:02:00,320
does not serve as well and so at the

1543
01:02:05,410 --> 01:02:02,990
point where you have somebody who says

1544
01:02:05,950 --> 01:02:05,420
the brain was dead like a bonala B I

1545
01:02:07,870 --> 01:02:05,960
have

1546
01:02:10,089 --> 01:02:07,880
Evan Alexander says my brain was dead or

1547
01:02:11,650 --> 01:02:10,099
my brain you know eg was flatlined or

1548
01:02:14,500 --> 01:02:11,660
whatever was I was incapable of having

1549
01:02:17,230 --> 01:02:14,510
this conscious experience everything

1550
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:17,240
that he experienced could have been

1551
01:02:22,470 --> 01:02:19,490
experienced in two or three minutes upon

1552
01:02:25,900 --> 01:02:22,480
his brain reinitiating and being in that

1553
01:02:29,740 --> 01:02:25,910
altered conscious state that then filled

1554
01:02:32,260 --> 01:02:29,750
with that super neural activity that he

1555
01:02:34,060 --> 01:02:32,270
would then separate out afterwards

1556
01:02:35,950 --> 01:02:34,070
because the the thing that I'd like to

1557
01:02:38,650 --> 01:02:35,960
point out with every one of these

1558
01:02:41,290 --> 01:02:38,660
experiences he's non near-death

1559
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:41,300
experiences is that if you can recall it

1560
01:02:46,150 --> 01:02:43,730
later it's in your hippocampus which

1561
01:02:47,980 --> 01:02:46,160
means what the campus was running hold

1562
01:02:50,500 --> 01:02:47,990
on see this is the point and you

1563
01:02:52,540 --> 01:02:50,510
hammered on Evan Alexander pretty good

1564
01:02:54,430 --> 01:02:52,550
so let me defend him a little bit now I

1565
01:02:56,589 --> 01:02:54,440
love him that's the only understand I

1566
01:02:57,670 --> 01:02:56,599
loved his story and I loved him and I

1567
01:03:00,010 --> 01:02:57,680
loved him coming out and telling this

1568
01:03:00,609 --> 01:03:00,020
stuff I just think that him saying that

1569
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:00,619
it couldn't have been a

1570
01:03:05,740 --> 01:03:03,050
dimethyltryptamine dump hold on because

1571
01:03:09,609 --> 01:03:05,750
you switched on either no but first of

1572
01:03:11,980 --> 01:03:09,619
all again let me emphasize I love you I

1573
01:03:13,450 --> 01:03:11,990
love you work that you're doing love the

1574
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:13,460
way that you're breaking this stuff down

1575
01:03:19,089 --> 01:03:16,250
and I think your books are just most

1576
01:03:20,770 --> 01:03:19,099
reads I hope people don't lose that and

1577
01:03:23,410 --> 01:03:20,780
they won't because you know the story

1578
01:03:26,020 --> 01:03:23,420
you talk about someone who is at the

1579
01:03:29,770 --> 01:03:26,030
verge of death from alcoholism and then

1580
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:29,780
gets some insight into what's going on

1581
01:03:34,300 --> 01:03:32,570
in terms of that self that voice inside

1582
01:03:36,940 --> 01:03:34,310
their head and the way you break that

1583
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:36,950
down is just awesome so we're having a

1584
01:03:41,859 --> 01:03:39,530
fun little discussion here because I'm

1585
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:41,869
about inquiry the Petric to perpetuate

1586
01:03:45,490 --> 01:03:43,490
doubt because that's what skeptical

1587
01:03:47,109 --> 01:03:45,500
means and I think doubt is among the

1588
01:03:49,060 --> 01:03:47,119
most spiritual things that you can do

1589
01:03:51,579 --> 01:03:49,070
and usually settled on anything and

1590
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:51,589
usually you you agree and you say hey

1591
01:03:56,170 --> 01:03:53,690
you know none of us know any of this so

1592
01:03:57,460 --> 01:03:56,180
you if you want to sum it up you can say

1593
01:03:58,720 --> 01:03:57,470
you know if you want to read the books

1594
01:04:00,550 --> 01:03:58,730
go read the books it'll better your

1595
01:04:02,140 --> 01:04:00,560
everyday life but now let's go off the

1596
01:04:04,570 --> 01:04:02,150
deep end into these cool conversations

1597
01:04:06,070 --> 01:04:04,580
and I love this back and forth so cool I

1598
01:04:08,020 --> 01:04:06,080
love that and I don't think it's deep

1599
01:04:10,089 --> 01:04:08,030
end because we're keep coming back to

1600
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:10,099
these points of convergence of the stuff

1601
01:04:15,310 --> 01:04:11,930
that's really important I mean your

1602
01:04:18,579 --> 01:04:15,320
transcendental spiritually enlightening

1603
01:04:19,750 --> 01:04:18,589
experience is we could spend a lot of

1604
01:04:23,230 --> 01:04:19,760
time it's been

1605
01:04:25,270 --> 01:04:23,240
not because it's fundamental to if there

1606
01:04:27,250 --> 01:04:25,280
is a larger spirituality if there is a

1607
01:04:29,349 --> 01:04:27,260
larger extended consciousness which all

1608
01:04:31,780 --> 01:04:29,359
the evidence points to then you tapped

1609
01:04:32,859 --> 01:04:31,790
into in a way that's super important and

1610
01:04:34,660 --> 01:04:32,869
there's a ton of questions about that

1611
01:04:36,370 --> 01:04:34,670
how did you tap into that why did you

1612
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:36,380
tap into that why weren't you able to

1613
01:04:39,849 --> 01:04:37,970
bring it back completely why do we keep

1614
01:04:41,500 --> 01:04:39,859
hearing that over and over what are the

1615
01:04:42,849 --> 01:04:41,510
different contact modalities how is that

1616
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:42,859
different from people who tapped into it

1617
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:45,170
from DMT experiences is that different

1618
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:47,570
than any experiences from 80 contact

1619
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:49,130
experiences which we can't leave off the

1620
01:04:57,400 --> 01:04:54,410
table too many claims there but let us

1621
01:05:00,460 --> 01:04:57,410
return to Evan the one thing that you

1622
01:05:03,849 --> 01:05:00,470
got that you I think you got wrong that

1623
01:05:05,830 --> 01:05:03,859
I want to correct is that because it

1624
01:05:07,930 --> 01:05:05,840
just plays into this guy has been so

1625
01:05:10,950 --> 01:05:07,940
maligned it's just so stupid and it's

1626
01:05:12,700 --> 01:05:10,960
stupid because there is this atheistic

1627
01:05:16,990 --> 01:05:12,710
materialistic science you are a

1628
01:05:21,580 --> 01:05:17,000
biological robot flanked with in science

1629
01:05:23,170 --> 01:05:21,590
that is just going to just attack anyone

1630
01:05:24,580 --> 01:05:23,180
like ebony Alexander who comes out

1631
01:05:26,790 --> 01:05:24,590
because he has his credentials he's a

1632
01:05:29,950 --> 01:05:26,800
Harvard neuroscientist he's a Harvard

1633
01:05:32,830 --> 01:05:29,960
neurosurgeon both the brain doctor so

1634
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:32,840
you know the one part when you say hey

1635
01:05:37,450 --> 01:05:35,570
if he had a memory he should know that

1636
01:05:39,490 --> 01:05:37,460
it's in the hippocampus you know this

1637
01:05:42,220 --> 01:05:39,500
isn't it sure do you think he doesn't

1638
01:05:44,830 --> 01:05:42,230
[\h__\h] know that well of course he

1639
01:05:46,660 --> 01:05:44,840
knows that so the point that he's trying

1640
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:46,670
to make that you missed and so many

1641
01:05:52,300 --> 01:05:49,250
other people missed is he saying that's

1642
01:05:54,940 --> 01:05:52,310
why this is interesting because I'm a

1643
01:05:57,580 --> 01:05:54,950
Harvard neuroscientist and neurosurgeon

1644
01:06:00,220 --> 01:05:57,590
and I understand that it's not supposed

1645
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:00,230
to work that way so the fact that it did

1646
01:06:03,340 --> 01:06:02,570
work that way and the fact that it does

1647
01:06:06,490 --> 01:06:03,350
work that way

1648
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:06,500
for these thousands of cases of engineer

1649
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:08,090
death experience that's what's

1650
01:06:12,670 --> 01:06:10,250
interesting and important so what's

1651
01:06:14,950 --> 01:06:12,680
interesting important is understanding

1652
01:06:16,540 --> 01:06:14,960
that anomaly understanding where it

1653
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:16,550
works that it shouldn't and I'm going to

1654
01:06:19,810 --> 01:06:17,690
go on for a minute here because I want

1655
01:06:21,670 --> 01:06:19,820
to talk about this other topic that you

1656
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:21,680
touched on which is central if you get

1657
01:06:26,380 --> 01:06:23,690
into this and that is the timing because

1658
01:06:28,660 --> 01:06:26,390
you talked about time dilation so this

1659
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:28,670
is what I played for Shermer and if you

1660
01:06:32,990 --> 01:06:30,530
go and look at the near-death experience

1661
01:06:35,150 --> 01:06:33,000
science again it's science they

1662
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:35,160
they understand that that's one of the

1663
01:06:40,670 --> 01:06:37,290
fundamental questions that have to be

1664
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:40,680
answered is the timing of it here's dr.

1665
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:42,810
penny secretory this is right out of

1666
01:06:51,140 --> 01:06:46,410
your book which it is you make the point

1667
01:06:53,990 --> 01:06:51,150
that hey people went reintroduce that

1668
01:06:57,800 --> 01:06:54,000
because here's a clip from again my

1669
01:07:00,200 --> 01:06:57,810
interview with Shermer who's funny

1670
01:07:03,590 --> 01:07:00,210
entertaining but completely off the

1671
01:07:07,070 --> 01:07:03,600
rails book about death and heaven you

1672
01:07:09,370 --> 01:07:07,080
know try to in a very feeble way site

1673
01:07:11,540 --> 01:07:09,380
near-death experience science and didn't

1674
01:07:13,220 --> 01:07:11,550
ignored all the important near-death

1675
01:07:16,370 --> 01:07:13,230
experience science so he should so he

1676
01:07:18,170 --> 01:07:16,380
could make his point so I tried to

1677
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:18,180
correct that in our interview and

1678
01:07:23,930 --> 01:07:20,610
pointed out the work of resuscitation

1679
01:07:27,410 --> 01:07:23,940
expert PhD and person who ran this

1680
01:07:30,260 --> 01:07:27,420
experiment dr. penny Sartori so again

1681
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:30,270
indulge me let me play this you make the

1682
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:32,010
point that hey people when they're

1683
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:35,250
resuscitated they claim to have seen

1684
01:07:39,470 --> 01:07:37,170
things that they shouldn't be able to

1685
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:39,480
see well they've seen it on TV they make

1686
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:42,330
it up here's a researcher who asked that

1687
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:44,850
question where the control group I had

1688
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:47,010
then patients who'd been successfully

1689
01:07:51,860 --> 01:07:50,130
resuscitated but they didn't have a

1690
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:51,870
near-death experience or they didn't

1691
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:54,210
have the antibody component and I asked

1692
01:07:58,930 --> 01:07:56,490
them if they could describe what they

1693
01:08:01,430 --> 01:07:58,940
thought that we had done to them and

1694
01:08:03,740 --> 01:08:01,440
they were like what do you mean I don't

1695
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:03,750
I was dead I don't remember anything

1696
01:08:12,860 --> 01:08:09,930
right I have no idea what you did to me

1697
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:12,870
at all all right and the majority of

1698
01:08:17,510 --> 01:08:15,450
them couldn't even guess they couldn't

1699
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:17,520
make a guess as to what we'd done and

1700
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:20,370
then a few of them then did make a guess

1701
01:08:25,519 --> 01:08:23,250
and it was based on T V Hospital dramas

1702
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:25,529
that they've been watching and what I

1703
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:27,170
found is that there were errors and

1704
01:08:31,519 --> 01:08:29,130
misconceptions and what they thought we

1705
01:08:34,099 --> 01:08:31,529
had done to them and so some of them

1706
01:08:36,559 --> 01:08:34,109
thought that they had been in DC shocked

1707
01:08:37,999 --> 01:08:36,569
with the paddles and they hadn't those

1708
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:38,009
people had just had the resuscitation

1709
01:08:45,410 --> 01:08:42,330
the CPR and drugs administered such as

1710
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:45,420
adrenaline or noradrenaline and then

1711
01:08:49,539 --> 01:08:46,130
some of them

1712
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:49,549
educated guesses but the place where

1713
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:51,770
they thought that we put the paddles on

1714
01:08:58,450 --> 01:08:54,290
to their body was completely erroneous

1715
01:09:02,559 --> 01:08:58,460
it was wrong it was incorrect data you

1716
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:02,569
know this is great stuff yeah so it just

1717
01:09:06,849 --> 01:09:04,370
you know it just goes to show that the

1718
01:09:09,129 --> 01:09:06,859
people who did report their the

1719
01:09:11,260 --> 01:09:09,139
near-death experience describe their

1720
01:09:13,780 --> 01:09:11,270
experience with accuracy whereas the

1721
01:09:15,249 --> 01:09:13,790
control group would wince at accurate

1722
01:09:18,849 --> 01:09:15,259
and they most of them couldn't even

1723
01:09:20,499 --> 01:09:18,859
hazard a guess so let me just frame this

1724
01:09:22,419 --> 01:09:20,509
up and then I'm gonna let you answer

1725
01:09:26,140 --> 01:09:22,429
that sure here's why I think this is

1726
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:26,150
important I get the time dilation thing

1727
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:29,810
right yeah but if we're going to do any

1728
01:09:34,629 --> 01:09:32,449
kind of science if we're gonna keep the

1729
01:09:36,789 --> 01:09:34,639
red book and a blue book intact and say

1730
01:09:39,370 --> 01:09:36,799
there's reason to trust some of the

1731
01:09:42,209 --> 01:09:39,380
studies in there and we have to hold to

1732
01:09:45,129 --> 01:09:42,219
the way things work in this time-space

1733
01:09:47,410 --> 01:09:45,139
little slice of consciousness that we

1734
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:47,420
live in so here's a person who's done

1735
01:09:50,249 --> 01:09:47,690
that

1736
01:09:53,649 --> 01:09:50,259
who said okay in our time-space reality

1737
01:09:55,930 --> 01:09:53,659
you die and then are resuscitated that's

1738
01:09:58,629 --> 01:09:55,940
what everyone in the hospital agrees

1739
01:10:01,300 --> 01:09:58,639
happen they agree you flatlined and they

1740
01:10:03,729 --> 01:10:01,310
agree we resuscitated you so the fact

1741
01:10:05,890 --> 01:10:03,739
that she can go and it's completely

1742
01:10:07,660 --> 01:10:05,900
valid for him for her to go and then say

1743
01:10:09,550 --> 01:10:07,670
in that time-space continuum

1744
01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:09,560
what data can we gather and the fact

1745
01:10:14,970 --> 01:10:11,120
that the data Falls the way that it is

1746
01:10:18,010 --> 01:10:14,980
this is not friendly to your explanation

1747
01:10:21,970 --> 01:10:18,020
with the exception that it makes the

1748
01:10:24,550 --> 01:10:21,980
assumption that when our brains are in a

1749
01:10:28,649 --> 01:10:24,560
non-standard conscious space that could

1750
01:10:34,930 --> 01:10:28,659
be interacting of some type of quantum

1751
01:10:39,220 --> 01:10:34,940
action that the quantum reality which is

1752
01:10:41,830 --> 01:10:39,230
that time doesn't really play the same

1753
01:10:42,970 --> 01:10:41,840
in our in our conscious awareness space

1754
01:10:44,919 --> 01:10:42,980
right when you're talking about quantum

1755
01:10:50,590 --> 01:10:44,929
mechanics you're talking about being

1756
01:10:54,310 --> 01:10:50,600
able to throw out the the the you know

1757
01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:54,320
basic scientific foundation of cause and

1758
01:10:59,950 --> 01:10:56,810
effect they've proven that you can have

1759
01:11:02,830 --> 01:10:59,960
backward in time causation and a

1760
01:11:05,170 --> 01:11:02,840
fact in Reverse does in quantum

1761
01:11:07,709 --> 01:11:05,180
experience in quantum experiments excuse

1762
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:07,719
me and so when you're in that

1763
01:11:12,340 --> 01:11:10,370
non-standard consciousness space where

1764
01:11:14,979 --> 01:11:12,350
you could be interacting via the

1765
01:11:17,470 --> 01:11:14,989
microtubules out into the quantum foam

1766
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:17,480
the the two-way communication channel

1767
01:11:21,970 --> 01:11:19,370
that may exist that we now have physical

1768
01:11:25,510 --> 01:11:21,980
scientific evidence that is supportive

1769
01:11:27,220 --> 01:11:25,520
of that potential now you're talking

1770
01:11:29,979 --> 01:11:27,230
about being in a space where time

1771
01:11:31,780 --> 01:11:29,989
doesn't operate the same as it does for

1772
01:11:34,030 --> 01:11:31,790
us in our regular waking awareness

1773
01:11:36,820 --> 01:11:34,040
well how many angels do you think fit on

1774
01:11:39,010 --> 01:11:36,830
the head of that pin I mean because if

1775
01:11:42,490 --> 01:11:39,020
we're gonna go there and if we're gonna

1776
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:42,500
talk about science that we have there's

1777
01:11:48,100 --> 01:11:46,489
no established science that would

1778
01:11:50,050 --> 01:11:48,110
suggest that right so when you got

1779
01:11:52,330 --> 01:11:50,060
pushed you brought up them the Michigan

1780
01:11:54,220 --> 01:11:52,340
study in the rats which is you're really

1781
01:11:56,830 --> 01:11:54,230
kind of a poor example but now you're

1782
01:11:58,540 --> 01:11:56,840
just completely jumping the shark a

1783
01:12:01,360 --> 01:11:58,550
little bit in terms of saying you have

1784
01:12:03,670 --> 01:12:01,370
all this good science in your books that

1785
01:12:05,380 --> 01:12:03,680
is neuroscience that is established yeah

1786
01:12:07,510 --> 01:12:05,390
the rest of this stuff is is complete

1787
01:12:09,550 --> 01:12:07,520
conjecture so I would move to the other

1788
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:09,560
well it's gonna be on your side and say

1789
01:12:14,650 --> 01:12:12,650
what is what is being reported

1790
01:12:18,060 --> 01:12:14,660
well it's conjecture to the point that

1791
01:12:19,810 --> 01:12:18,070
that you don't have a first-person

1792
01:12:23,740 --> 01:12:19,820
representation or first-person

1793
01:12:26,620 --> 01:12:23,750
experience which I let me person

1794
01:12:29,350 --> 01:12:26,630
experience of having an experience on an

1795
01:12:31,300 --> 01:12:29,360
afternoon through a meditation where I

1796
01:12:33,550 --> 01:12:31,310
experienced thousands of years of

1797
01:12:35,620 --> 01:12:33,560
stories and and it's not like you know

1798
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:35,630
this was just an invention of my brain I

1799
01:12:39,190 --> 01:12:37,250
was able to bring back something that

1800
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:39,200
we're now using to create some new

1801
01:12:45,090 --> 01:12:41,810
science that we hadn't had previously as

1802
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:45,100
a human race right so whatever it is the

1803
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:49,610
the subconscious creation process that

1804
01:12:53,500 --> 01:12:51,530
Einstein talked about where you know we

1805
01:12:55,540 --> 01:12:53,510
don't really create create a solution to

1806
01:12:58,150 --> 01:12:55,550
a problem we think about the problem and

1807
01:13:00,820 --> 01:12:58,160
then all of a sudden the answer comes to

1808
01:13:03,220 --> 01:13:00,830
us from within our bodies from another

1809
01:13:05,410 --> 01:13:03,230
level of consciousness within us we come

1810
01:13:06,729 --> 01:13:05,420
up with that solution well you know

1811
01:13:08,410 --> 01:13:06,739
David Eagleman I'll tell you we've been

1812
01:13:10,270 --> 01:13:08,420
working on that at multiple levels of

1813
01:13:11,770 --> 01:13:10,280
our subconscious for days before it pops

1814
01:13:13,559 --> 01:13:11,780
up into our waking awareness that oh

1815
01:13:15,029 --> 01:13:13,569
here's the solution to that

1816
01:13:17,969 --> 01:13:15,039
right when you're talking about an

1817
01:13:20,669 --> 01:13:17,979
experience that can happen within an

1818
01:13:23,519 --> 01:13:20,679
individual where time dilation occurs

1819
01:13:24,899 --> 01:13:23,529
under normal operation of a human mind

1820
01:13:26,849 --> 01:13:24,909
you'd say that would be impossible

1821
01:13:28,169 --> 01:13:26,859
well you're not talking about the normal

1822
01:13:30,629 --> 01:13:28,179
operation of a human mind when you're

1823
01:13:32,489 --> 01:13:30,639
talking about an NDE or an Enlightenment

1824
01:13:33,719 --> 01:13:32,499
experience or a consciousness expansion

1825
01:13:35,789 --> 01:13:33,729
experience you're talking about the

1826
01:13:37,829 --> 01:13:35,799
brain operating in a different mode that

1827
01:13:41,429 --> 01:13:37,839
we are unfamiliar with and have

1828
01:13:43,169 --> 01:13:41,439
absolutely no scientific foundation for

1829
01:13:45,449 --> 01:13:43,179
it you mean the folks up at Johns

1830
01:13:48,929 --> 01:13:45,459
Hopkins right now are trying to figure

1831
01:13:51,119 --> 01:13:48,939
out the best way to formulate a an

1832
01:13:52,829 --> 01:13:51,129
experiment where they can induce an

1833
01:13:56,009 --> 01:13:52,839
Enlightenment experience that they can

1834
01:13:58,349 --> 01:13:56,019
catch in an fMRI right that we haven't

1835
01:14:01,019 --> 01:13:58,359
even gone on the whole thing what why do

1836
01:14:04,019 --> 01:14:01,029
you switch back to wanting to catch it

1837
01:14:06,539 --> 01:14:04,029
in an fMRI what I'm suggesting is that

1838
01:14:08,729 --> 01:14:06,549
the did what what I think every

1839
01:14:10,739 --> 01:14:08,739
near-death experience researcher Khurram

1840
01:14:13,709 --> 01:14:10,749
aware of has come to the conclusion that

1841
01:14:15,569 --> 01:14:13,719
consciousness extends beyond bodily

1842
01:14:17,969 --> 01:14:15,579
death in a way that we completely don't

1843
01:14:20,759 --> 01:14:17,979
understand so yes but a jamot trying to

1844
01:14:22,679 --> 01:14:20,769
jam it back into the materialist model

1845
01:14:26,129 --> 01:14:22,689
trying to say oh we're gonna see it on

1846
01:14:31,379 --> 01:14:26,139
an fMRI we're gonna see in an EEG we

1847
01:14:33,599 --> 01:14:31,389
existed both we existed both we exist we

1848
01:14:35,819 --> 01:14:33,609
don't understand the level of complexity

1849
01:14:37,889 --> 01:14:35,829
you know we switch back from saying but

1850
01:14:39,689 --> 01:14:37,899
how else do you find the how else do you

1851
01:14:41,579 --> 01:14:39,699
find the details if you don't try to

1852
01:14:42,059 --> 01:14:41,589
induce an enlightenment experience in an

1853
01:14:43,679 --> 01:14:42,069
fMRI

1854
01:14:45,179 --> 01:14:43,689
so that you can look at the physical

1855
01:14:47,489 --> 01:14:45,189
science of what's happening in the brain

1856
01:14:49,529 --> 01:14:47,499
because guess what whatever experience

1857
01:14:51,839 --> 01:14:49,539
that I have right now is completely

1858
01:14:53,519 --> 01:14:51,849
dependent on me having a brain you cut

1859
01:14:55,139 --> 01:14:53,529
the brain out I'm not gonna have an

1860
01:14:58,109 --> 01:14:55,149
experience here in my body of

1861
01:15:00,359 --> 01:14:58,119
consciousness for anything further than

1862
01:15:02,759 --> 01:15:00,369
at the point that your scalpel is cut

1863
01:15:05,729 --> 01:15:02,769
through right this is the this is

1864
01:15:09,959 --> 01:15:05,739
exactly the debate that we're having

1865
01:15:13,769 --> 01:15:09,969
right NDE suggests is that what you said

1866
01:15:16,919 --> 01:15:13,779
right there is fundamentally incorrect

1867
01:15:19,829 --> 01:15:16,929
because as Jeff Long explained to you as

1868
01:15:22,019 --> 01:15:19,839
dr. Sam pornea who's one of the leading

1869
01:15:25,469 --> 01:15:22,029
experts in the world on resuscitation

1870
01:15:27,270 --> 01:15:25,479
and will tell you these people are dead

1871
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:27,280
that we're studying

1872
01:15:33,540 --> 01:15:30,610
they are dead clinically dead brain dead

1873
01:15:35,430 --> 01:15:33,550
brain stem dead brain dead every way you

1874
01:15:37,740 --> 01:15:35,440
want to talk about it and yet they're

1875
01:15:40,410 --> 01:15:37,750
having a conscious experience that

1876
01:15:43,260 --> 01:15:40,420
contradicts what you're saying in a way

1877
01:15:46,020 --> 01:15:43,270
that we can't resolve I'm okay with

1878
01:15:49,590 --> 01:15:46,030
leaving it unresolved you seem to want

1879
01:15:51,990 --> 01:15:49,600
to be really Wed to the idea of jamming

1880
01:15:55,430 --> 01:15:52,000
it back into yeah but it somehow has to

1881
01:15:58,140 --> 01:15:55,440
fit into our biology in some way because

1882
01:16:00,300 --> 01:15:58,150
my brain is right here and my body is

1883
01:16:02,850 --> 01:16:00,310
right here maybe from our perspective

1884
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:02,860
only primer from a perspective of an

1885
01:16:08,010 --> 01:16:06,010
individual human life right because when

1886
01:16:11,220 --> 01:16:08,020
you're talking about consciousness and

1887
01:16:12,750 --> 01:16:11,230
mass yeah I completely believe non-local

1888
01:16:14,610 --> 01:16:12,760
consciousness exists and there's there's

1889
01:16:16,410 --> 01:16:14,620
gonna be in hallux that exists beyond

1890
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:16,420
your body when your body quits and

1891
01:16:19,710 --> 01:16:18,010
there's going to be a portion of my

1892
01:16:21,810 --> 01:16:19,720
consciousness that exists beyond the

1893
01:16:23,790 --> 01:16:21,820
portion that you know when my body quits

1894
01:16:25,950 --> 01:16:23,800
I get that and I agree with that but

1895
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:25,960
what we're talking about here is the

1896
01:16:29,940 --> 01:16:28,570
ability to create an amazing human life

1897
01:16:31,500 --> 01:16:29,950
from what we understand about

1898
01:16:34,350 --> 01:16:31,510
consciousness and so we have to

1899
01:16:36,930 --> 01:16:34,360
understand the complexity that comes

1900
01:16:39,270 --> 01:16:36,940
into it when we entertain this meatsuit

1901
01:16:41,190 --> 01:16:39,280
and we put this into the equation right

1902
01:16:43,350 --> 01:16:41,200
because we're we're not just this

1903
01:16:45,030 --> 01:16:43,360
consciousness this you know I mean we're

1904
01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:45,040
am wearing this non dual space it's

1905
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:45,760
amazing

1906
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:47,770
you're nothing but the consciousness of

1907
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:49,570
the universe and there is no me there is

1908
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:51,730
no you you are me in simply a different

1909
01:16:56,370 --> 01:16:53,890
form you're just another extension of me

1910
01:16:58,710 --> 01:16:56,380
and I would love you to to the same

1911
01:17:00,870 --> 01:16:58,720
level that I love myself without an

1912
01:17:03,330 --> 01:17:00,880
issue but the problem comes in when we

1913
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:03,340
have to start you know having jobs and

1914
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:05,410
making money and dealing with emotions

1915
01:17:08,580 --> 01:17:07,090
and understanding the delineations

1916
01:17:09,990 --> 01:17:08,590
between our conscious awareness and our

1917
01:17:11,970 --> 01:17:10,000
subconscious awareness and the things

1918
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:11,980
that our subconscious awareness throws

1919
01:17:17,370 --> 01:17:15,010
up into our mind that creates turmoil

1920
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:17,380
for us and takes us away from that unit

1921
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:19,930
of consciousness etc so I'm talking

1922
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:21,730
about when specifically I'm talking

1923
01:17:24,870 --> 01:17:23,170
about you know the conscious experience

1924
01:17:26,450 --> 01:17:24,880
being dependent upon the brain I'm

1925
01:17:29,070 --> 01:17:26,460
talking about just for our human body

1926
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:29,080
right I'm not talking about the whole

1927
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:31,330
thing I'm talking about just the thing

1928
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:32,410
that we have to deal with on a

1929
01:17:36,660 --> 01:17:34,090
day-to-day basis and when you can

1930
01:17:39,570 --> 01:17:36,670
understand that better that allows you

1931
01:17:40,650 --> 01:17:39,580
to reach out farther into that non-local

1932
01:17:42,510 --> 01:17:40,660
conscious awareness

1933
01:17:44,100 --> 01:17:42,520
and become one with the universe and be

1934
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:44,110
in that space of equanimity at all

1935
01:17:48,660 --> 01:17:46,690
points in your life right when you're

1936
01:17:51,660 --> 01:17:48,670
having to deal with this you're starting

1937
01:17:54,770 --> 01:17:51,670
to bring into complexity the body itself

1938
01:17:57,660 --> 01:17:54,780
that has a number of things that are

1939
01:18:00,930 --> 01:17:57,670
counterintuitive and really kind of

1940
01:18:02,610 --> 01:18:00,940
confusing on our understanding of our

1941
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:02,620
existence and it creates a lot of noise

1942
01:18:07,470 --> 01:18:04,810
for us to have to deal with and when we

1943
01:18:09,630 --> 01:18:07,480
can reduce that noise that's when we

1944
01:18:11,340 --> 01:18:09,640
find that place of complete peace and

1945
01:18:13,410 --> 01:18:11,350
equanimity and liberation that all of us

1946
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:13,420
are supposed to be finding right and so

1947
01:18:15,750 --> 01:18:14,650
that's what I'm talking about what I'm

1948
01:18:18,480 --> 01:18:15,760
talking about you know the conscious

1949
01:18:20,940 --> 01:18:18,490
awareness being dependent upon the brain

1950
01:18:22,620 --> 01:18:20,950
well that's our human body that's our

1951
01:18:24,210 --> 01:18:22,630
human body's conscious one that's the

1952
01:18:25,440 --> 01:18:24,220
delineation that I'm making but I think

1953
01:18:27,030 --> 01:18:25,450
you know a lot of the times when you're

1954
01:18:28,830 --> 01:18:27,040
talking about consciousness you'll lose

1955
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:28,840
yourself and you know where the line of

1956
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:31,090
demarcation is on you know like the the

1957
01:18:36,420 --> 01:18:34,210
the the materialist scientists are the

1958
01:18:38,430 --> 01:18:36,430
are the lost folks who say consciousness

1959
01:18:40,440 --> 01:18:38,440
stops at the body and when the body's

1960
01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:40,450
done the brain dies consciousness is

1961
01:18:42,180 --> 01:18:40,810
done

1962
01:18:44,250 --> 01:18:42,190
I've [\h__\h] we all know it's [\h__\h]

1963
01:18:47,370 --> 01:18:44,260
science is leading us down the path to

1964
01:18:49,410 --> 01:18:47,380
prove that it's [\h__\h] right but you

1965
01:18:51,300 --> 01:18:49,420
have to have the conversation in those

1966
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:51,310
terms when you're talking about dealing

1967
01:18:55,290 --> 01:18:53,410
with the human body that we are dealt

1968
01:18:57,870 --> 01:18:55,300
and the life that we have to live

1969
01:18:59,820 --> 01:18:57,880
individually here and yeah are there

1970
01:19:01,680 --> 01:18:59,830
things that we don't understand on the

1971
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:01,690
universe that could help us explain you

1972
01:19:08,310 --> 01:19:04,090
know ESP is scientifically proven to a

1973
01:19:10,170 --> 01:19:08,320
statistical significance yeah I mean

1974
01:19:12,660 --> 01:19:10,180
you've got those things that are you

1975
01:19:15,540 --> 01:19:12,670
know now we've got the way to to start

1976
01:19:17,490 --> 01:19:15,550
to to prove those things can you start

1977
01:19:19,350 --> 01:19:17,500
talking about past lives well you know

1978
01:19:20,430 --> 01:19:19,360
when you're starting to take time out of

1979
01:19:22,230 --> 01:19:20,440
the equation the time doesn't really

1980
01:19:25,950 --> 01:19:22,240
exist and that all matter in existence

1981
01:19:28,530 --> 01:19:25,960
can be happening at the same exact

1982
01:19:30,510 --> 01:19:28,540
moment are you really seeing a past life

1983
01:19:32,250 --> 01:19:30,520
or are you actually seeing a moment

1984
01:19:34,050 --> 01:19:32,260
that's going on right now through your

1985
01:19:36,180 --> 01:19:34,060
connection out into the quantum foam

1986
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:36,190
that you know you're you're just seeing

1987
01:19:40,110 --> 01:19:38,410
a connection to another life that

1988
01:19:41,340 --> 01:19:40,120
seemingly would have been another time

1989
01:19:43,710 --> 01:19:41,350
that it's actually happening in this

1990
01:19:45,480 --> 01:19:43,720
present moment right these are all

1991
01:19:46,530 --> 01:19:45,490
questions that we need to ask but at the

1992
01:19:48,510 --> 01:19:46,540
same time when you're having a

1993
01:19:50,220 --> 01:19:48,520
conversation about the reality of

1994
01:19:52,270 --> 01:19:50,230
existence and the consciousness of the

1995
01:19:56,170 --> 01:19:52,280
quantum and quantum

1996
01:19:58,420 --> 01:19:56,180
and the quantum foam you know you have

1997
01:20:00,640 --> 01:19:58,430
to you have to zoom that down to talk

1998
01:20:01,690 --> 01:20:00,650
about one or two things because you

1999
01:20:02,860 --> 01:20:01,700
can't talk about the whole thing because

2000
01:20:05,710 --> 01:20:02,870
as soon as you say word one you're

2001
01:20:07,630 --> 01:20:05,720
you're off the path of truth talking

2002
01:20:09,820 --> 01:20:07,640
about you know whatever your conception

2003
01:20:11,290 --> 01:20:09,830
your you know your personal perception

2004
01:20:13,540 --> 01:20:11,300
of that is and then and then as soon as

2005
01:20:17,230 --> 01:20:13,550
you mix in this meat suit here you're

2006
01:20:20,290 --> 01:20:17,240
you're flawed well we're all flawed and

2007
01:20:22,900 --> 01:20:20,300
I understand the dilemma and the need to

2008
01:20:27,070 --> 01:20:22,910
gobby it's like you're going from shutup

2009
01:20:31,990 --> 01:20:27,080
and calculate to shut up and liberate

2010
01:20:34,990 --> 01:20:32,000
you know don't worry about some of the

2011
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:35,000
little anomalies that pop up and just

2012
01:20:41,770 --> 01:20:38,890
you know liberate yourself in a way that

2013
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:41,780
millions and billions have done before

2014
01:20:47,140 --> 01:20:44,570
and left the cookie crumbs there in

2015
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:47,150
terms of how you can do it too

2016
01:20:54,700 --> 01:20:51,250
so I tell you what that was I hope

2017
01:20:57,550 --> 01:20:54,710
edutainment for at least some people out

2018
01:20:59,950 --> 01:20:57,560
there an interesting exchange you've

2019
01:21:02,710 --> 01:20:59,960
been super generous with your time let's

2020
01:21:06,310 --> 01:21:02,720
kind of wrap it up with the big the

2021
01:21:10,360 --> 01:21:06,320
biggie down here we've got the question

2022
01:21:12,550 --> 01:21:10,370
of God and you know one of the things

2023
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:12,560
I'd like to kind of contemplate with

2024
01:21:17,830 --> 01:21:15,650
guests is when we talk about this

2025
01:21:19,830 --> 01:21:17,840
extended consciousness this larger

2026
01:21:23,850 --> 01:21:19,840
consciousness this unity consciousness

2027
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:23,860
yeah is there a hierarchy to it and then

2028
01:21:29,470 --> 01:21:26,810
the question I have for you because you

2029
01:21:31,930 --> 01:21:29,480
tell a dramatic story and maybe you can

2030
01:21:34,180 --> 01:21:31,940
retell that story now you tell the story

2031
01:21:36,970 --> 01:21:34,190
in your books and I don't remember which

2032
01:21:38,610 --> 01:21:36,980
one but you can clarify sure I'm having

2033
01:21:41,410 --> 01:21:38,620
this experience this profound

2034
01:21:45,190 --> 01:21:41,420
transformational experience and being

2035
01:21:46,810 --> 01:21:45,200
told let go and the voice has to tell

2036
01:21:50,620 --> 01:21:46,820
you more than once cuz you don't want to

2037
01:21:53,830 --> 01:21:50,630
let go you're right I told you that yeah

2038
01:21:56,200 --> 01:21:53,840
that's a really good question and okay

2039
01:21:57,790 --> 01:21:56,210
so in front of me I'm seeing God and

2040
01:22:01,900 --> 01:21:57,800
then I'm seeing the two questions is

2041
01:22:05,650 --> 01:22:01,910
there a consciousness hierarchy and as a

2042
01:22:08,250 --> 01:22:05,660
quick you know as a person who wants

2043
01:22:12,090 --> 01:22:08,260
to keep one foot in the boat of

2044
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:12,100
potential of things that could be and

2045
01:22:17,050 --> 01:22:15,530
the other foot in the boat of well

2046
01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:17,060
here's what I know or here's what I'm

2047
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:21,290
able to see or observe from that foot in

2048
01:22:25,930 --> 01:22:24,530
the boat of what I can see what I can

2049
01:22:27,610 --> 01:22:25,940
see within the human mind and what we

2050
01:22:29,500 --> 01:22:27,620
all can see when we we learn how to look

2051
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:29,510
at it is that there are multiple levels

2052
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:31,010
of consciousness even within our human

2053
01:22:38,710 --> 01:22:34,850
mind and you know when we like I give a

2054
01:22:41,110 --> 01:22:38,720
good example in the first book of taking

2055
01:22:42,850 --> 01:22:41,120
a picture of an elephant and imagining

2056
01:22:44,650 --> 01:22:42,860
an elephant in your mind and then trying

2057
01:22:47,050 --> 01:22:44,660
to paint that elephant pink with purple

2058
01:22:49,290 --> 01:22:47,060
polka dots and you see that in your mind

2059
01:22:51,310 --> 01:22:49,300
but you didn't actually do that you

2060
01:22:52,810 --> 01:22:51,320
communicated the intention you had the

2061
01:22:54,250 --> 01:22:52,820
intention of wanting to see an elephant

2062
01:22:55,450 --> 01:22:54,260
and then poof an elephant appears and

2063
01:22:57,310 --> 01:22:55,460
then I tell you to hate paint that

2064
01:22:59,080 --> 01:22:57,320
elephant pink with purple polka dots and

2065
01:23:00,520 --> 01:22:59,090
then all of a sudden you see that as

2066
01:23:02,020 --> 01:23:00,530
well you didn't actually do that you

2067
01:23:04,270 --> 01:23:02,030
passed down that intention to other

2068
01:23:06,220 --> 01:23:04,280
functions within your brain or within

2069
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:06,230
your mind there are other levels of

2070
01:23:10,330 --> 01:23:08,690
conscious awareness that then say okay

2071
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:10,340
well here's what an elephant looks like

2072
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:12,650
here's the color pink and here's what

2073
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:13,850
polka dots look like and here's what

2074
01:23:16,420 --> 01:23:15,170
purple polka dots look like and they put

2075
01:23:17,710 --> 01:23:16,430
all that stuff together and then shove

2076
01:23:19,690 --> 01:23:17,720
it back up into your conscious awareness

2077
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:19,700
for you to be able to then see the

2078
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:21,770
elephant pink with purple polka dots so

2079
01:23:24,820 --> 01:23:22,850
there are multiple levels of

2080
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:24,830
consciousness that are working for you

2081
01:23:28,570 --> 01:23:26,090
and by the way if you get those under

2082
01:23:32,190 --> 01:23:28,580
control your life becomes amazing but

2083
01:23:35,980 --> 01:23:32,200
they're working for you right and so

2084
01:23:37,270 --> 01:23:35,990
from that evidence right there within

2085
01:23:39,550 --> 01:23:37,280
our own human bodies we have the answer

2086
01:23:42,250 --> 01:23:39,560
to the question is consciousness is

2087
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:42,260
there a consciousness hierarchy I do

2088
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:43,730
believe that there are lines of

2089
01:23:49,270 --> 01:23:46,730
demarcation where consciousness works on

2090
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:49,280
certain portions of the universe at the

2091
01:23:56,200 --> 01:23:53,570
level that they're meant to or that they

2092
01:23:57,910 --> 01:23:56,210
fall into and so there's a level of

2093
01:24:01,330 --> 01:23:57,920
consciousness where like at the human

2094
01:24:03,190 --> 01:24:01,340
cellular level we have these cells that

2095
01:24:04,690 --> 01:24:03,200
have different functions and it's within

2096
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:04,700
their conscious awareness that they

2097
01:24:11,050 --> 01:24:08,210
sense the outside they have a they have

2098
01:24:13,150 --> 01:24:11,060
a cell structure they have a line of

2099
01:24:15,280 --> 01:24:13,160
demarcation they have a function within

2100
01:24:16,480 --> 01:24:15,290
the cell they understand what's going on

2101
01:24:18,340 --> 01:24:16,490
outside the cells so they have a

2102
01:24:19,090 --> 01:24:18,350
perception they make an intelligent

2103
01:24:20,440 --> 01:24:19,100
decision

2104
01:24:22,480 --> 01:24:20,450
what to do based on what's going on

2105
01:24:24,820 --> 01:24:22,490
outside the cell and then they have an

2106
01:24:27,490 --> 01:24:24,830
internal reaction that is part of their

2107
01:24:29,650 --> 01:24:27,500
conscious awareness that they take

2108
01:24:33,730 --> 01:24:29,660
action and then that has a pro-life

2109
01:24:35,710 --> 01:24:33,740
function from their perspective and so

2110
01:24:40,090 --> 01:24:35,720
that is evidence right there that there

2111
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:40,100
is some type of consciousness hierarchy

2112
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:43,610
that those cells or our organs or our

2113
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:46,250
brain or whatever it is has a level of

2114
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:48,410
consciousness that it works within and

2115
01:24:54,310 --> 01:24:52,730
then it can and does have interaction

2116
01:24:56,230 --> 01:24:54,320
with other levels of consciousness but

2117
01:24:58,240 --> 01:24:56,240
only to a couple of levels up or down

2118
01:25:00,340 --> 01:24:58,250
and so we're talking about the right

2119
01:25:02,410 --> 01:25:00,350
here the same thing here because usually

2120
01:25:03,730 --> 01:25:02,420
when I talk about that I'm talking about

2121
01:25:06,100 --> 01:25:03,740
after we had a discussion about

2122
01:25:08,260 --> 01:25:06,110
near-death experience science and we

2123
01:25:10,150 --> 01:25:08,270
said ok there is this extended realm

2124
01:25:11,290 --> 01:25:10,160
which you've accessed and we talked

2125
01:25:12,850 --> 01:25:11,300
about that in a minute again because

2126
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:12,860
that was kind of a second question sure

2127
01:25:17,020 --> 01:25:14,170
and then we started looking at all these

2128
01:25:21,030 --> 01:25:17,030
experiences who access this extended

2129
01:25:23,290 --> 01:25:21,040
consciousness realm and what they report

2130
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:23,300
consistently is that there is a

2131
01:25:27,550 --> 01:25:25,610
hierarchy of consciousness that we would

2132
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:27,560
associate with God and I look at the

2133
01:25:30,940 --> 01:25:29,090
near-death experience that's what they

2134
01:25:33,460 --> 01:25:30,950
say directly and I always say this

2135
01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:33,470
people hear it for the tenth time that's

2136
01:25:38,500 --> 01:25:35,810
ok yeah dr. Jeff Long who I've

2137
01:25:40,420 --> 01:25:38,510
referenced earlier that was his surprise

2138
01:25:42,850 --> 01:25:40,430
finding in his latest book again he's

2139
01:25:44,440 --> 01:25:42,860
got Chris you're not a religious guy he

2140
01:25:46,210 --> 01:25:44,450
just said hey here this is the data this

2141
01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:46,220
is the data that I encountered is yeah

2142
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:48,890
over and over again say God God God God

2143
01:25:53,410 --> 01:25:51,050
and they say it in ways of like I saw

2144
01:25:56,800 --> 01:25:53,420
Jesus but then they say it in ways up I

2145
01:26:00,670 --> 01:25:56,810
saw this light being of infinite love or

2146
01:26:02,170 --> 01:26:00,680
they say I saw this other being that you

2147
01:26:04,270 --> 01:26:02,180
know all this kind of all these demircan

2148
01:26:06,180 --> 01:26:04,280
things so it's not bound by religion or

2149
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:06,190
anything like that there's a hierarchy

2150
01:26:12,220 --> 01:26:09,290
there's God it comes through over and

2151
01:26:14,140 --> 01:26:12,230
over again and what what you just said

2152
01:26:16,450 --> 01:26:14,150
about the level of consciousness inside

2153
01:26:17,830 --> 01:26:16,460
of us we don't know if that's a

2154
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:17,840
hierarchy we don't know if that's a

2155
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:19,850
system and a lot of people who when they

2156
01:26:22,420 --> 01:26:20,930
start talking about the extended

2157
01:26:24,700 --> 01:26:22,430
consciousness realm stuff that I just

2158
01:26:26,710 --> 01:26:24,710
did they want to fall into the blob of

2159
01:26:28,870 --> 01:26:26,720
consciousness well I want to really say

2160
01:26:30,220 --> 01:26:28,880
that one there's a moral imperative you

2161
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:30,230
know we don't know if anything's good or

2162
01:26:32,830 --> 01:26:31,730
bad if there really is he

2163
01:26:34,780 --> 01:26:32,840
we don't want to make those kind of

2164
01:26:37,630 --> 01:26:34,790
value judgments there is consciousness

2165
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:37,640
it's larger I'm okay that's the way it

2166
01:26:41,710 --> 01:26:39,530
goes I'm just saying day to day to day

2167
01:26:43,990 --> 01:26:41,720
to follow the data wherever it leads yep

2168
01:26:46,030 --> 01:26:44,000
data we're getting back says hierarchy

2169
01:26:50,530 --> 01:26:46,040
of consciousness really what it says is

2170
01:26:54,160 --> 01:26:50,540
God so go with that right but you know

2171
01:26:55,900 --> 01:26:54,170
at the same time if you have an example

2172
01:26:57,520 --> 01:26:55,910
within your own existence within your

2173
01:26:59,320 --> 01:26:57,530
own human existence first of all it

2174
01:27:00,580 --> 01:26:59,330
would be pompous to say that you know we

2175
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:00,590
are the culmination of it of

2176
01:27:03,730 --> 01:27:01,970
consciousness and that consciousness

2177
01:27:06,070 --> 01:27:03,740
stops with us and there's nothing above

2178
01:27:08,440 --> 01:27:06,080
our own consciousness and I don't think

2179
01:27:10,960 --> 01:27:08,450
that the the evidence that we have

2180
01:27:13,210 --> 01:27:10,970
uncovered as our simplistic you know

2181
01:27:14,820 --> 01:27:13,220
human existence is who think we're a lot

2182
01:27:17,650 --> 01:27:14,830
more intelligent than we actually are

2183
01:27:19,150 --> 01:27:17,660
I think that you know looking at the

2184
01:27:20,290 --> 01:27:19,160
model that we exist within and not

2185
01:27:22,330 --> 01:27:20,300
saying you know that would be

2186
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:22,340
extrapolated out to how that's how the

2187
01:27:27,010 --> 01:27:23,930
whole universe works well that would be

2188
01:27:28,300 --> 01:27:27,020
kind of silly to say so I do believe

2189
01:27:31,900 --> 01:27:28,310
that there are hierarchies in

2190
01:27:36,100 --> 01:27:33,640
we can't tell right we can only

2191
01:27:38,260 --> 01:27:36,110
understand our perceptions and our

2192
01:27:40,180 --> 01:27:38,270
experiences through the limited

2193
01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:40,190
understanding that our meatsuit can can

2194
01:27:45,730 --> 01:27:43,370
process and so you know we can get an

2195
01:27:48,670 --> 01:27:45,740
inkling of understanding that there are

2196
01:27:50,770 --> 01:27:48,680
hierarchies of consciousness but we to

2197
01:27:52,780 --> 01:27:50,780
delineate what those are I mean you know

2198
01:27:54,790 --> 01:27:52,790
that's that's for world religion to say

2199
01:27:57,460 --> 01:27:54,800
and for you know thousands of years of

2200
01:27:58,950 --> 01:27:57,470
human argument discussion to try to come

2201
01:28:01,930 --> 01:27:58,960
together and put together of you know

2202
01:28:02,620 --> 01:28:01,940
divas and you know multiple gods and all

2203
01:28:04,750 --> 01:28:02,630
this other stuff

2204
01:28:06,610 --> 01:28:04,760
those are inventions of the human mind I

2205
01:28:08,980 --> 01:28:06,620
feel but you know are they based in

2206
01:28:11,170 --> 01:28:08,990
experience of human consciousness sure

2207
01:28:14,050 --> 01:28:11,180
so could they have a basis in some type

2208
01:28:18,580 --> 01:28:14,060
of reality maybe you know who know then

2209
01:28:20,440 --> 01:28:18,590
who told you to let go Sean that's the

2210
01:28:24,790 --> 01:28:20,450
good question isn't it tell the story

2211
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:24,800
okay so early on in my meditation career

2212
01:28:28,210 --> 01:28:26,090
just to make a long story short and I

2213
01:28:30,580 --> 01:28:28,220
expand on this in the blue book and

2214
01:28:32,620 --> 01:28:30,590
going to a lot more than I thought I

2215
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:32,630
will here but basically you know I got

2216
01:28:36,010 --> 01:28:33,530
to this point in my life where I was

2217
01:28:40,129 --> 01:28:36,020
like look you know I have all these

2218
01:28:41,959 --> 01:28:40,139
things that humanity and society

2219
01:28:44,479 --> 01:28:41,969
they're supposed to make me happy this

2220
01:28:46,939 --> 01:28:44,489
professional success I have financial

2221
01:28:48,379 --> 01:28:46,949
success I have romantic success I have

2222
01:28:50,810 --> 01:28:48,389
all these things lined up I own this

2223
01:28:53,330 --> 01:28:50,820
house in this upper middle-class

2224
01:28:54,770 --> 01:28:53,340
suburban neighborhood in Atlanta and you

2225
01:28:58,429 --> 01:28:54,780
know nothing you know future's so bright

2226
01:29:00,620 --> 01:28:58,439
I gotta wear shades life still kind of

2227
01:29:02,179 --> 01:29:00,630
sucks for some reason it wasn't happy

2228
01:29:04,459 --> 01:29:02,189
and there was something missing so I

2229
01:29:05,330 --> 01:29:04,469
started to dive into world religions

2230
01:29:06,830 --> 01:29:05,340
because I thought well maybe it's my

2231
01:29:08,419 --> 01:29:06,840
spiritual life that you know I thought I

2232
01:29:10,279 --> 01:29:08,429
had a good relationship with God maybe I

2233
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:10,289
don't and so I started to dive into

2234
01:29:13,669 --> 01:29:11,610
world religions and started to do an

2235
01:29:15,589 --> 01:29:13,679
anthology of comparative religions and I

2236
01:29:18,620 --> 01:29:15,599
started to understand a little bit more

2237
01:29:21,469 --> 01:29:18,630
about how the world sees God and then I

2238
01:29:23,899 --> 01:29:21,479
ran into this book on Zen Buddhism

2239
01:29:25,219 --> 01:29:23,909
introduction to Zen Buddhism by DT

2240
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:25,229
Suzuki and I learned about this thing

2241
01:29:29,830 --> 01:29:26,610
called meditation and then I learned

2242
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:29,840
that they meditate with the focus of

2243
01:29:33,770 --> 01:29:32,010
finding this thing called Satori which

2244
01:29:34,969 --> 01:29:33,780
is the immediate understanding of

2245
01:29:36,529 --> 01:29:34,979
everything in the universe Gary oh yeah

2246
01:29:38,270 --> 01:29:36,539
and I was like okay what's that all

2247
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:38,280
about and so I started meditating for

2248
01:29:43,489 --> 01:29:40,530
some time and there was this afternoon

2249
01:29:45,589 --> 01:29:43,499
where I was meditating where I knew that

2250
01:29:48,350 --> 01:29:45,599
the focus was to cease conscious thought

2251
01:29:50,419 --> 01:29:48,360
and I didn't I didn't do a whole lot of

2252
01:29:53,089 --> 01:29:50,429
Zen like it didn't go as in group I

2253
01:29:55,250 --> 01:29:53,099
didn't go to you know these meetings I

2254
01:29:57,109 --> 01:29:55,260
didn't have you know a master that I was

2255
01:29:59,989 --> 01:29:57,119
learning from I just read these books

2256
01:30:02,839 --> 01:29:59,999
and I knew that the focus was shut the

2257
01:30:04,279 --> 01:30:02,849
mind down so I took my own mind and I

2258
01:30:05,959 --> 01:30:04,289
turned it back in on itself and I said

2259
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:05,969
okay we're gonna cease conscious thought

2260
01:30:12,739 --> 01:30:09,449
and so for a good 20 minutes I tried to

2261
01:30:15,139 --> 01:30:12,749
stop my mind from thinking and it wasn't

2262
01:30:16,609 --> 01:30:15,149
working and because every now and then

2263
01:30:18,199 --> 01:30:16,619
I'd be like am I thinking anything is

2264
01:30:20,389 --> 01:30:18,209
like alphaf crap that's a thought you

2265
01:30:22,339 --> 01:30:20,399
know or or an image would fly through or

2266
01:30:23,659 --> 01:30:22,349
a sound outside would make me think of

2267
01:30:25,279 --> 01:30:23,669
something like a dog barking whatever an

2268
01:30:27,229 --> 01:30:25,289
image of a dog or whatever come in mind

2269
01:30:29,330 --> 01:30:27,239
and those all those things are thoughts

2270
01:30:32,149 --> 01:30:29,340
and you have to come to a point where

2271
01:30:35,270 --> 01:30:32,159
there is absolutely nothing going on in

2272
01:30:36,949 --> 01:30:35,280
your mind and my looking back on that

2273
01:30:39,799 --> 01:30:36,959
now is you know you got to change the

2274
01:30:41,659 --> 01:30:39,809
patterns in your brain to stop what it's

2275
01:30:46,279 --> 01:30:41,669
doing to get it to do what it can do

2276
01:30:48,319 --> 01:30:46,289
next and so I forcibly tried to get my

2277
01:30:50,569 --> 01:30:48,329
mind to stop thinking it took maybe 20

2278
01:30:54,110 --> 01:30:50,579
minutes and then at the point of

2279
01:30:58,930 --> 01:30:54,120
complete solitude of AB

2280
01:31:03,070 --> 01:30:58,940
saluté silence stillness within the mind

2281
01:31:05,630 --> 01:31:03,080
that's when this energy started building

2282
01:31:06,560 --> 01:31:05,640
within me it's like I'd really didn't

2283
01:31:09,140 --> 01:31:06,570
understand what was going on and just

2284
01:31:10,730 --> 01:31:09,150
kind of felt this like holy crap like

2285
01:31:14,180 --> 01:31:10,740
where did that come from type of energy

2286
01:31:16,010 --> 01:31:14,190
in again I tell the story in the book

2287
01:31:18,230 --> 01:31:16,020
but ultimately built into this vortex

2288
01:31:19,580 --> 01:31:18,240
and I was started to be sucked into it

2289
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:19,590
and I was like holding on because I

2290
01:31:22,190 --> 01:31:20,970
thought I was dying it's like oh my god

2291
01:31:23,690 --> 01:31:22,200
am I having a heart attack you know

2292
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:23,700
what's going on you know I just moved

2293
01:31:28,130 --> 01:31:25,770
mom down north and you take care of her

2294
01:31:30,740 --> 01:31:28,140
or all these worldly attachments were

2295
01:31:33,470 --> 01:31:30,750
then like I can't let go but my mind was

2296
01:31:34,790 --> 01:31:33,480
going again so this process had started

2297
01:31:37,790 --> 01:31:34,800
but I was having those thoughts so that

2298
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:37,800
was interesting to me but then during

2299
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:39,810
the point that this was building up and

2300
01:31:43,550 --> 01:31:41,730
I was having to hold on for dear life

2301
01:31:44,930 --> 01:31:43,560
that I thought I can't have a heart

2302
01:31:47,270 --> 01:31:44,940
attack now it's like I got too much [\h__\h]

2303
01:31:49,090 --> 01:31:47,280
to do you know I wonder if I can get to

2304
01:31:52,730 --> 01:31:49,100
my phone call 9-1-1 or whatever was

2305
01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:52,740
there was this huge voice that said

2306
01:31:59,630 --> 01:31:55,050
within my existence but it wasn't me I

2307
01:32:01,100 --> 01:31:59,640
said let go and I didn't know where it

2308
01:32:02,540 --> 01:32:01,110
came from my dental it was I don't know

2309
01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:02,550
whether it was a another level of my

2310
01:32:05,030 --> 01:32:04,170
subconscious that was telling me you

2311
01:32:06,560 --> 01:32:05,040
know leading me in the right direction

2312
01:32:07,670 --> 01:32:06,570
to say hey this is a natural process

2313
01:32:09,470 --> 01:32:07,680
let's go ahead and go through this

2314
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:09,480
you've been asking for answers here they

2315
01:32:15,170 --> 01:32:11,970
are don't [\h__\h] [\h__\h] this up now right

2316
01:32:16,220 --> 01:32:15,180
and and I said absolutely not and I am

2317
01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:16,230
not letting go

2318
01:32:21,080 --> 01:32:18,330
there's no frigging way and so then it

2319
01:32:23,090 --> 01:32:21,090
came through again like from the booming

2320
01:32:27,260 --> 01:32:23,100
voice of the universe it seemed like it

2321
01:32:29,330 --> 01:32:27,270
was saying let go and I was like little

2322
01:32:31,970 --> 01:32:29,340
more convincing but I think I might not

2323
01:32:33,380 --> 01:32:31,980
think I might not buy into that whole

2324
01:32:36,530 --> 01:32:33,390
you know I'm not really sure if I'm

2325
01:32:40,610 --> 01:32:36,540
ready to die yet and then a third time

2326
01:32:42,290 --> 01:32:40,620
it was like you know almost you're like

2327
01:32:44,240 --> 01:32:42,300
your best friend forever

2328
01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:44,250
you know that voice that you've just

2329
01:32:47,960 --> 01:32:45,570
trust that you've forgotten that you

2330
01:32:50,150 --> 01:32:47,970
even knew in this whole lifetime that

2331
01:32:53,150 --> 01:32:50,160
has come from wherever it came before

2332
01:32:56,390 --> 01:32:53,160
you were even human came up and like you

2333
01:32:58,850 --> 01:32:56,400
know hands on your shoulders whispers in

2334
01:33:01,160 --> 01:32:58,860
your ear from the back just saying let

2335
01:33:06,170 --> 01:33:01,170
go you know and that voice it was like

2336
01:33:07,379 --> 01:33:06,180
oh oh oh yeah I know you you will not

2337
01:33:11,310 --> 01:33:07,389
lead me astray

2338
01:33:12,959 --> 01:33:11,320
so if I'm dying okay let's go let's see

2339
01:33:15,450 --> 01:33:12,969
if it's it's time if I got something

2340
01:33:17,370 --> 01:33:15,460
else to do you know I know to trust this

2341
01:33:19,890 --> 01:33:17,380
voice they just whispered in my ear

2342
01:33:22,169 --> 01:33:19,900
let's go and then so that's when the the

2343
01:33:24,600 --> 01:33:22,179
from my perspective reception again this

2344
01:33:26,250 --> 01:33:24,610
is you know again again my believe that

2345
01:33:27,750 --> 01:33:26,260
I had this experience because my brain

2346
01:33:29,700 --> 01:33:27,760
was allowing me to have it and it was

2347
01:33:31,109 --> 01:33:29,710
print and printed him I hippocampus

2348
01:33:34,470 --> 01:33:31,119
which I can then recall later you know

2349
01:33:36,990 --> 01:33:34,480
all that stuff that I argued earlier it

2350
01:33:39,359 --> 01:33:37,000
felt like my whole soul my whole

2351
01:33:41,370 --> 01:33:39,369
existence D materialized Dean atomized

2352
01:33:44,430 --> 01:33:41,380
into this vortex of energy and then I

2353
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:44,440
was off onto this amazing multiple

2354
01:33:49,350 --> 01:33:47,650
lifetimes of experience that I I just

2355
01:33:51,540 --> 01:33:49,360
try to outline in the book because if I

2356
01:33:53,700 --> 01:33:51,550
tried to tell all the stories it would

2357
01:33:56,220 --> 01:33:53,710
take me multiple lifetimes but basically

2358
01:33:58,200 --> 01:33:56,230
I went through the whole you know seeing

2359
01:34:00,419 --> 01:33:58,210
the life seeing my life from different

2360
01:34:02,430 --> 01:34:00,429
perspectives my whole life again was

2361
01:34:05,100 --> 01:34:02,440
being replayed but I was able to see it

2362
01:34:06,990 --> 01:34:05,110
from the emotional perspectives of other

2363
01:34:08,399 --> 01:34:07,000
people who are around me during the time

2364
01:34:10,229 --> 01:34:08,409
and so I got to see into their

2365
01:34:12,090 --> 01:34:10,239
existences and I got to see all the pain

2366
01:34:14,100 --> 01:34:12,100
that I'd caused for other folks and I

2367
01:34:15,899 --> 01:34:14,110
got to see all the unintentional pain

2368
01:34:17,370 --> 01:34:15,909
and all the intentional pain and all the

2369
01:34:18,780 --> 01:34:17,380
mistakes that I'd made and all the stuff

2370
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:18,790
that I was supposed to learn from and

2371
01:34:22,590 --> 01:34:20,050
yadda-yadda and I went through that

2372
01:34:26,790 --> 01:34:22,600
whole process and then I went into a

2373
01:34:29,370 --> 01:34:26,800
tour of forgiveness of understanding you

2374
01:34:32,850 --> 01:34:29,380
know from a a quote-unquote God's

2375
01:34:34,680 --> 01:34:32,860
perspective how all of the worst sins in

2376
01:34:36,540 --> 01:34:34,690
the world could be immediately forgiven

2377
01:34:39,120 --> 01:34:36,550
and you know all this other stuff that

2378
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:39,130
I'd went through and yada yada and I had

2379
01:34:42,990 --> 01:34:40,810
this amazing consciousness expansion

2380
01:34:44,399 --> 01:34:43,000
experience where I became I went through

2381
01:34:46,530 --> 01:34:44,409
these experiences then I became the

2382
01:34:48,720 --> 01:34:46,540
experiences that I went through being

2383
01:34:50,970 --> 01:34:48,730
you know following this tour guide and I

2384
01:34:52,530 --> 01:34:50,980
became the tour guide and became the

2385
01:34:54,359 --> 01:34:52,540
consciousness the universe became the

2386
01:34:56,160 --> 01:34:54,369
creative energy of all of existence got

2387
01:34:58,680 --> 01:34:56,170
down below the Planck length to where

2388
01:35:01,050 --> 01:34:58,690
everything goes infinite got to take a

2389
01:35:04,020 --> 01:35:01,060
tour of you know how all of the universe

2390
01:35:06,899 --> 01:35:04,030
works the the atoms of the universe how

2391
01:35:10,439 --> 01:35:06,909
it comes together the quantum energy and

2392
01:35:12,180 --> 01:35:10,449
how it how it magically creates all of

2393
01:35:13,830 --> 01:35:12,190
Newtonian physics and and the multiple

2394
01:35:15,780 --> 01:35:13,840
dimensions that come together that then

2395
01:35:17,970 --> 01:35:15,790
clash with their waves to create

2396
01:35:20,240 --> 01:35:17,980
particles and and you know you got to

2397
01:35:22,850 --> 01:35:20,250
see chemical reactions

2398
01:35:24,500 --> 01:35:22,860
with the release of heat energy and

2399
01:35:26,570 --> 01:35:24,510
light energy and all this cool stuff and

2400
01:35:29,150 --> 01:35:26,580
then you get to see the whole process of

2401
01:35:31,450 --> 01:35:29,160
life and how two individual cells come

2402
01:35:34,250 --> 01:35:31,460
together to create a human body and

2403
01:35:36,470 --> 01:35:34,260
multiple bodies of insects and all

2404
01:35:39,200 --> 01:35:36,480
living things you know all of this

2405
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:39,210
really really really cool stuff and I

2406
01:35:41,660 --> 01:35:39,930
thought it was dead

2407
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:41,670
and I thought I was whoa this is what

2408
01:35:43,850 --> 01:35:42,810
you learn when you die this is what you

2409
01:35:45,620 --> 01:35:43,860
learn when you're on your way to heaven

2410
01:35:48,890 --> 01:35:45,630
and then you're you wind up in this

2411
01:35:50,570 --> 01:35:48,900
space of perfect bliss in the middle of

2412
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:50,580
nowhere with absolutely nothing to do

2413
01:35:55,490 --> 01:35:53,090
but be the universe which was just

2414
01:35:59,450 --> 01:35:55,500
amazing and it was infinite and it was

2415
01:36:03,080 --> 01:35:59,460
all knowledgeable all all wise all

2416
01:36:05,230 --> 01:36:03,090
loving and everything that happened has

2417
01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:05,240
humans could judge it good or bad

2418
01:36:11,870 --> 01:36:08,610
happened and was beautiful and it simply

2419
01:36:14,270 --> 01:36:11,880
was as it was and it was our judgments

2420
01:36:17,210 --> 01:36:14,280
of things that then put anything on top

2421
01:36:20,090 --> 01:36:17,220
of that happening and at the point that

2422
01:36:22,490 --> 01:36:20,100
I was returning there's big surprise I

2423
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:22,500
was like oh I have to go back and be a

2424
01:36:25,100 --> 01:36:23,970
human again okay cool I get to be a

2425
01:36:26,630 --> 01:36:25,110
human baby you get to do this all over

2426
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:26,640
again whatever and I thought I was

2427
01:36:31,100 --> 01:36:27,930
really coming back to be I was like well

2428
01:36:32,690 --> 01:36:31,110
that solves a reincarnation question and

2429
01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:32,700
I thought I was going back to be another

2430
01:36:37,100 --> 01:36:34,650
human baby and when I started zooming

2431
01:36:39,650 --> 01:36:37,110
back in I started see that's my heart

2432
01:36:42,980 --> 01:36:39,660
well there's me on my bed laying laying

2433
01:36:46,400 --> 01:36:42,990
there bawling and came back into my body

2434
01:36:47,630 --> 01:36:46,410
existence and I started losing a lot of

2435
01:36:49,700 --> 01:36:47,640
the stuff a lot of the understanding

2436
01:36:52,820 --> 01:36:49,710
that I had gained in that whole

2437
01:36:55,670 --> 01:36:52,830
experience and I I said wait a second

2438
01:36:57,350 --> 01:36:55,680
and then that voice came back and

2439
01:36:59,720 --> 01:36:57,360
basically communicated what yeah even

2440
01:37:02,090 --> 01:36:59,730
human mind can't can't hold all this and

2441
01:37:03,590 --> 01:37:02,100
I said okay so here's what I want to do

2442
01:37:04,970 --> 01:37:03,600
I want to go through the pain and

2443
01:37:07,670 --> 01:37:04,980
suffering thing if I'm gonna go back and

2444
01:37:10,850 --> 01:37:07,680
I'm gonna be this Shawn character again

2445
01:37:12,440 --> 01:37:10,860
I want to be able to communicate some of

2446
01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:12,450
the benefit of the stuff that I had

2447
01:37:16,100 --> 01:37:14,610
figured out here so I want to go through

2448
01:37:17,480 --> 01:37:16,110
pain and suffering on understand how the

2449
01:37:18,650 --> 01:37:17,490
human mind works and then there was

2450
01:37:21,500 --> 01:37:18,660
there was like a little joke there is

2451
01:37:23,330 --> 01:37:21,510
that you weren't the first and I got

2452
01:37:24,950 --> 01:37:23,340
this thing was like wow you know this

2453
01:37:26,540 --> 01:37:24,960
realization was like wow you know what

2454
01:37:28,250 --> 01:37:26,550
you're right that the Buddha and all

2455
01:37:29,900 --> 01:37:28,260
these other folks asked for the same

2456
01:37:30,130 --> 01:37:29,910
stuff and was able to bring it back and

2457
01:37:32,830 --> 01:37:30,140
try

2458
01:37:35,800 --> 01:37:32,840
explain it so that's what I grabbed onto

2459
01:37:39,370 --> 01:37:35,810
and when I grabbed onto that I grabbed

2460
01:37:42,010 --> 01:37:39,380
onto it like you know for my bare life

2461
01:37:44,950 --> 01:37:42,020
basically just try to hold on to this

2462
01:37:46,720 --> 01:37:44,960
information and not let it go and that's

2463
01:37:48,730 --> 01:37:46,730
what I brought back into my conscious

2464
01:37:49,870 --> 01:37:48,740
awareness and it took me a number years

2465
01:37:51,880 --> 01:37:49,880
to figure it out because it was actually

2466
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:51,890
a lot more than I could try to put all

2467
01:37:54,730 --> 01:37:53,210
together into this you know really cool

2468
01:37:56,170 --> 01:37:54,740
system to explain how the human mind

2469
01:37:58,360 --> 01:37:56,180
works and all that other stuff and to

2470
01:38:01,120 --> 01:37:58,370
ultimately create artificial emotions

2471
01:38:03,460 --> 01:38:01,130
for simulated personalities and things

2472
01:38:05,980 --> 01:38:03,470
like that none of that was figured out

2473
01:38:07,690 --> 01:38:05,990
so it took me you know a good decade to

2474
01:38:10,750 --> 01:38:07,700
be able to sort all of that stuff out

2475
01:38:15,460 --> 01:38:10,760
that I had brought back but I was able

2476
01:38:18,010 --> 01:38:15,470
to grab some of the data and pack it

2477
01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:18,020
back into my mind into a fashion that we

2478
01:38:24,220 --> 01:38:21,650
could then you know try to put into some

2479
01:38:27,400 --> 01:38:24,230
form of book or some form of Education

2480
01:38:29,380 --> 01:38:27,410
to say here's how your [\h__\h] works

2481
01:38:31,090 --> 01:38:29,390
here's how you here's all the limiting

2482
01:38:32,650 --> 01:38:31,100
things that are creating havoc for your

2483
01:38:34,870 --> 01:38:32,660
life here's how all this stuff works and

2484
01:38:38,470 --> 01:38:34,880
here's how to defuse it and let's get on

2485
01:38:40,270 --> 01:38:38,480
from being Humanity 2.0 to humanity 3.0

2486
01:38:42,660 --> 01:38:40,280
because humanity 1.0 is you know let's

2487
01:38:44,980 --> 01:38:42,670
survive let's you know figure out how to

2488
01:38:46,810 --> 01:38:44,990
domesticate animals let's figure out you

2489
01:38:47,950 --> 01:38:46,820
know and then humanity 2.0 is okay well

2490
01:38:49,960 --> 01:38:47,960
we figured out the whole food chain

2491
01:38:52,030 --> 01:38:49,970
thing and now we can go into offices and

2492
01:38:54,100 --> 01:38:52,040
have cubicles in yada-yada-yada and make

2493
01:38:56,200 --> 01:38:54,110
all of this artificial [\h__\h]

2494
01:38:58,540 --> 01:38:56,210
important to us let's go from humanity

2495
01:39:01,360 --> 01:38:58,550
2.0 infinity 3.0 where we're no longer

2496
01:39:03,040 --> 01:39:01,370
vexed by the emotional turmoil that is

2497
01:39:04,650 --> 01:39:03,050
causing us to lob bombs at each other

2498
01:39:07,870 --> 01:39:04,660
because we have disagreements about

2499
01:39:10,510 --> 01:39:07,880
financial systems or political systems

2500
01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:10,520
or religious beliefs or whatever it is

2501
01:39:15,910 --> 01:39:12,770
let's get beyond that what is that

2502
01:39:18,820 --> 01:39:15,920
answer and so that's why I clawed onto

2503
01:39:20,950 --> 01:39:18,830
that data so vehemently and so

2504
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:20,960
desperately to say we really need this

2505
01:39:25,360 --> 01:39:23,810
as a human race and how do I figure that

2506
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:25,370
out how do I put it into some books and

2507
01:39:32,340 --> 01:39:27,050
and put it out so that people can use it

2508
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:32,350
so that when when I die this can live on

2509
01:39:38,230 --> 01:39:36,770
very very very very cool so the books

2510
01:39:39,190 --> 01:39:38,240
that you're going to want to check out I

2511
01:39:41,380 --> 01:39:39,200
have them up on this

2512
01:39:44,710 --> 01:39:41,390
but if you need to be reminded mind

2513
01:39:48,610 --> 01:39:44,720
hacking happiness volume on mind hacking

2514
01:39:50,890 --> 01:39:48,620
happiness by into Sean if folks go to

2515
01:39:54,010 --> 01:39:50,900
your website and we will link to it here

2516
01:39:56,380 --> 01:39:54,020
on the show but what will they find and

2517
01:39:58,420 --> 01:39:56,390
what other ways are there to connect

2518
01:40:00,100 --> 01:39:58,430
with this material the books I have to

2519
01:40:03,220 --> 01:40:00,110
say I've read the second book and I just

2520
01:40:06,010 --> 01:40:03,230
kind of look inside the first book great

2521
01:40:08,590 --> 01:40:06,020
stuff very very readable very

2522
01:40:11,410 --> 01:40:08,600
well-written entertaining and packed

2523
01:40:13,720 --> 01:40:11,420
packed packed with a lot of sciency

2524
01:40:16,780 --> 01:40:13,730
stuff that people will like so but to

2525
01:40:19,450 --> 01:40:16,790
tell about the other forms of people

2526
01:40:21,310 --> 01:40:19,460
getting to know your stuff yeah if you

2527
01:40:23,650 --> 01:40:21,320
want to check out the stuff that we're

2528
01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:23,660
trying to create for continuing

2529
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:24,890
education because a lot of people are

2530
01:40:30,250 --> 01:40:26,810
like holy crap this stuff changed my

2531
01:40:33,160 --> 01:40:30,260
life how do I maximize it right so we're

2532
01:40:36,880 --> 01:40:33,170
starting to create some videos for the

2533
01:40:38,650 --> 01:40:36,890
YouTube folks who love to to click on

2534
01:40:40,900 --> 01:40:38,660
various videos and stuff like that we're

2535
01:40:44,260 --> 01:40:40,910
creating programs so that you can

2536
01:40:47,260 --> 01:40:44,270
actually take some exercises and do some

2537
01:40:48,430 --> 01:40:47,270
work that will help you develop some of

2538
01:40:50,740 --> 01:40:48,440
the things that we talked about in the

2539
01:40:52,510 --> 01:40:50,750
books right now we just launched it two

2540
01:40:54,490 --> 01:40:52,520
seals and a walrus podcast the seals

2541
01:40:55,630 --> 01:40:54,500
that came forward to say this is the

2542
01:40:57,310 --> 01:40:55,640
best mind training that they'd ever

2543
01:40:59,080 --> 01:40:57,320
experienced while we're now doing a

2544
01:41:03,010 --> 01:40:59,090
podcast to talk about consciousness

2545
01:41:04,750 --> 01:41:03,020
expansion and how to proactively use

2546
01:41:06,940 --> 01:41:04,760
this stuff to better your human life

2547
01:41:10,270 --> 01:41:06,950
here your meatsuit life you know before

2548
01:41:12,640 --> 01:41:10,280
we pass out of this you know confusing

2549
01:41:14,320 --> 01:41:12,650
pain and suffering into perfection and

2550
01:41:15,940 --> 01:41:14,330
bliss yada yada yada well you know we

2551
01:41:18,670 --> 01:41:15,950
got to do this round first we got to do

2552
01:41:20,080 --> 01:41:18,680
this duty here on this planet so we're

2553
01:41:24,100 --> 01:41:20,090
doing a podcast called two seals and

2554
01:41:25,810 --> 01:41:24,110
walrus they're it's raw its raw its uses

2555
01:41:27,310 --> 01:41:25,820
adult language and we talked about adult

2556
01:41:31,480 --> 01:41:27,320
themes and things like that but we do

2557
01:41:34,300 --> 01:41:31,490
have a lot of fun in you know poking fun

2558
01:41:36,040 --> 01:41:34,310
at your society and poking fun at how

2559
01:41:37,870 --> 01:41:36,050
people think about things and you know

2560
01:41:39,220 --> 01:41:37,880
how to maybe step beyond that to create

2561
01:41:40,870 --> 01:41:39,230
a better existence for yourself stuff

2562
01:41:42,430 --> 01:41:40,880
like that so you know if you just check

2563
01:41:43,390 --> 01:41:42,440
in with the website every now and then

2564
01:41:46,570 --> 01:41:43,400
you'll see the stuff that we're working

2565
01:41:49,060 --> 01:41:46,580
on great well it's been absolutely

2566
01:41:50,680 --> 01:41:49,070
fantastic having you on I so commend the

2567
01:41:52,899 --> 01:41:50,690
work that you're doing and

2568
01:41:56,350 --> 01:41:52,909
I really did appreciate the openness and

2569
01:41:59,470 --> 01:41:56,360
just kind of allowing me to hash some of

2570
01:42:01,120 --> 01:41:59,480
this stuff out with you pleasure it's

2571
01:42:02,470 --> 01:42:01,130
been a pleasure I mean you know we none

2572
01:42:04,780 --> 01:42:02,480
of us really have the answers to this

2573
01:42:06,850 --> 01:42:04,790
stuff and we can only get close with our

2574
01:42:08,979 --> 01:42:06,860
limited human minds and whatnot and I

2575
01:42:10,720 --> 01:42:08,989
think having these discussions to maybe

2576
01:42:12,850 --> 01:42:10,730
prod people in the right direction is it

2577
01:42:15,220 --> 01:42:12,860
is an amazing service and I love you for

2578
01:42:15,460 --> 01:42:15,230
putting this stuff out I love you too

2579
01:42:17,160 --> 01:42:15,470
man

2580
01:42:20,140 --> 01:42:17,170
[Laughter]

2581
01:42:22,419 --> 01:42:20,150
all right job you take care and we'll be

2582
01:42:23,050 --> 01:42:22,429
sure to connect down the road for sure

2583
01:42:25,899 --> 01:42:23,060
for sure

2584
01:42:27,939 --> 01:42:25,909
thanks Alex thanks again to Sean Webb

2585
01:42:30,250 --> 01:42:27,949
for joining me today on skeptical the

2586
01:42:32,590 --> 01:42:30,260
one question I guess I'd have to tee up

2587
01:42:35,800 --> 01:42:32,600
from this interview is the one that I

2588
01:42:39,010 --> 01:42:35,810
kind of hammered on Sean pretty hard

2589
01:42:42,280 --> 01:42:39,020
about but one that does trouble me as

2590
01:42:44,680 --> 01:42:42,290
well and that's that does mine equal

2591
01:42:46,840 --> 01:42:44,690
brain I mean we've gone over that so

2592
01:42:48,820 --> 01:42:46,850
many times on this show and tried to

2593
01:42:51,310 --> 01:42:48,830
show all this evidence that clearly you

2594
01:42:53,229 --> 01:42:51,320
are not your brain but once we get over

2595
01:42:55,720 --> 01:42:53,239
that side we're faced with a pretty

2596
01:42:59,200 --> 01:42:55,730
strange dilemma - I mean what is the

2597
01:43:02,110 --> 01:42:59,210
relationship between the brain and the

2598
01:43:04,050 --> 01:43:02,120
mind and how do we explain all the stuff

2599
01:43:06,550 --> 01:43:04,060
that may be going on with these

2600
01:43:08,979 --> 01:43:06,560
microtubules that we talked about and

2601
01:43:12,070 --> 01:43:08,989
all that other stuff what are some of

2602
01:43:15,399 --> 01:43:12,080
the more complex parts of that mind

2603
01:43:17,439 --> 01:43:15,409
equals brain question so if you'd like

2604
01:43:20,770 --> 01:43:17,449
to answer that and if you'd like to hear

2605
01:43:22,990 --> 01:43:20,780
my answer to it probably the best place

2606
01:43:25,209 --> 01:43:23,000
to go is the skeptical forum you can

2607
01:43:27,399 --> 01:43:25,219
definitely get an answer from me there

2608
01:43:29,979 --> 01:43:27,409
if you're interested in discussing that

2609
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:29,989
you can also email me or find me another

2610
01:43:34,930 --> 01:43:32,330
way but skeptical forum I'm over there

2611
01:43:37,110 --> 01:43:34,940
pretty regularly and you can communicate

2612
01:43:40,540 --> 01:43:37,120
with me about this stuff if you like

2613
01:43:43,930 --> 01:43:40,550
also of course be sure to check out the

2614
01:43:47,860 --> 01:43:43,940
skeptic Oh website and there you'll find

2615
01:43:50,470 --> 01:43:47,870
all our previous shows over 400 of them

2616
01:43:53,500 --> 01:43:50,480
at this point all available for free for

2617
01:43:56,020 --> 01:43:53,510
download you just get the mp3 and you

2618
01:43:58,180 --> 01:43:56,030
can do whatever you like from there

2619
01:44:00,790 --> 01:43:58,190
and of course as you know from listening

2620
01:44:03,130 --> 01:44:00,800
to show we cover a lot of topics that I

2621
01:44:05,950 --> 01:44:03,140
think you'll be interested in and we

2622
01:44:08,740 --> 01:44:05,960
have some new really exciting shows

2623
01:44:11,500 --> 01:44:08,750
coming up that I can't wait to bring to

2624
01:44:12,190 --> 01:44:11,510
all of you so once again thanks for

2625
01:44:14,080 --> 01:44:12,200
listening

2626
01:44:16,420 --> 01:44:14,090
do your best to share the show with

2627
01:44:19,470 --> 01:44:16,430
anyone you think who needs to hear it

2628
01:44:23,140 --> 01:44:19,480
and not with anyone who doesn't and

2629
01:44:25,130 --> 01:44:23,150
until next time take care and bye for